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	<title>Sacha Chua</title>
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		<title>2026-06-08 Emacs news</title>
		<link>https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/2026-06-08-emacs-news/</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sacha Chua]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2026 18:36:11 GMT</pubDate>
    <category>emacs</category>
<category>emacs-news</category>
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		<description><![CDATA[<p>
It's <a href="https://rossabaker.com/blog/underappreciated-emacs-built-ins/">Emacs Built-ins appreciation month</a>! I'm coming to appreciate the menu bar more. What built-ins do you appreciate? Write about it and <a href="https://rossabaker.com/blog/underappreciated-emacs-built-ins/">send Ross a link</a>!
</p>

<ul class="org-ul">
<li>Emacs updates:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2026-06/msg00118.html">Emacs 31.0.90 pretest is available</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tycwh7/emacs_31090_pretest_released_speed_boosts_ui/">Reddit</a>, <a href="https://www.linuxcompatible.org/story/emacs-31090-pretest-released-speed-boosts-ui-tweaks-bug-fixes/">Linux Compatible</a>, <a href="https://irreal.org/blog/?p=13858">Irreal</a>)</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Upcoming events (<a href="https://emacslife.com/calendar/emacs-calendar.ics">iCal file</a>, <a href="https://emacslife.com/calendar/">Org</a>):
<ul class="org-ul">
<li>Emacs Berlin: In-Person-Only Emacs-Berlin Stammtisch <a href="https://emacs-berlin.org/">https://emacs-berlin.org/</a> Tue Jun 9 1900 Europe/Berlin</li>
<li>OrgMeetup (virtual) <a href="https://orgmode.org/worg/orgmeetup.html">https://orgmode.org/worg/orgmeetup.html</a> Wed Jun 10 0900 America/Vancouver - 1100 America/Chicago - 1200 America/Toronto - 1600 Etc/GMT - 1800 Europe/Berlin - 2130 Asia/Kolkata &ndash; Thu Jun 11 0000 Asia/Singapore</li>
<li>Atelier Emacs Montpellier (in person) <a href="https://lebib.org/date/atelier-emacs">https://lebib.org/date/atelier-emacs</a> Fri Jun 12 1800 Europe/Paris</li>
<li>M-x Research: TBA <a href="https://m-x-research.github.io/">https://m-x-research.github.io/</a> Wed Jun 17 0800 America/Vancouver - 1000 America/Chicago - 1100 America/Toronto - 1500 Etc/GMT - 1700 Europe/Berlin - 2030 Asia/Kolkata - 2300 Asia/Singapore</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Beginner:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diPparUrHGw">How to Install Emacs on a Chromebook in 2026</a> (07:15)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVtYtcFvutw">How to Setup Emacs on a Chromebook Without Elisp in 2026</a> (10:37)</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Emacs configuration:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://wiki.plexwave.org/useful-emacs-key-bindings">Useful Emacs key bindings</a> (<a href="https://gts.plexwave.org/@spnw/statuses/01KT4TKGRQ2VZ62CD1N9APSG20">@spnw@plexwave.org</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tzo8jz/this_is_my_best_emacs_function_written_in_my/">function to list bindings</a></li>
<li><a href="https://ray-on-emacs.blogspot.com/2026/06/emacs-and-numeric-keypad.html">Raymond Zeitler: Emacs and the Numeric Keypad</a></li>
<li><a href="https://mathstodon.xyz/@oantolin/116698855002229972">new embark-automatic-prefix-help-mode (@oantolin@mathstodon.xyz)</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCELm1zUcH0">How I structure my Emacs init.el file</a> (27:05, <a href="https://github.com/maxfriis/my-emacs-config">GitHub</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/jamescherti/minimal-emacs.d">minimal-emacs.d: A Customizable init.el and early-init.el for Optimized Startup and Better Emacs Defaults [Release 1.5.0]​</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tuowci/minimalemacsd_a_customizable_initel_and/">Reddit</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/scovl/dotfiles/tree/main/OpenBSD/.emacs.d">dotfiles/OpenBSD/.emacs.d at main · scovl/dotfiles · GitHub</a> (<a href="https://hachyderm.io/@lobocode/116677349851718741">@lobocode@hachyderm.io</a>)</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Emacs Lisp:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://github.com/k3jph/stops-el">k3jph/stops-el: stops: Guards in Emacs Lisp · GitHub</a> (<a href="https://mastodon.social/@k3jph/116693120049548169">@k3jph</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://codeberg.org/imarko/vared.el">imarko/vared.el: Emacs command for interactively editing a variable - Codeberg.org</a> (<a href="https://fosstodon.org/@zrzz/116711371610663138">@zrzz@fosstodon.org</a>)</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Appearance:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://github.com/jamescherti/vim-tab-bar.el">vim-tab-bar: A Vim inspired Emacs tab-bar that adapts to any Emacs theme [Release 1.1.5]​</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tu64xu/vimtabbar_a_vim_inspired_emacs_tabbar_that_adapts/">Reddit</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.chiply.dev/post-svg-line">svg-line: Better Status Bars for Emacs</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1u069gm/svgline_better_status_bars_for_emacs/">Reddit</a>, <a href="https://lobste.rs/s/bqjxzj/svg_line_better_status_bars_for_emacs">lobste.rs</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://ray-on-emacs.blogspot.com/2026/06/change-emacs-cursor-to-indicate.html">Raymond Zeitler: Change Emacs Cursor to Indicate Overwrite Mode</a></li>
<li><a href="https://source.cipherbliss.com/tykayn/emacs-theming">tykayn/emacs-theming</a> (<a href="https://mastodon.cipherbliss.com/@tykayn/116697952623553128">@tykayn@mastodon.cipherbliss.com</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/lucasobx/pixel-themes">Emacs themes inspired by pixel art palettes</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tx56oj/emacs_themes_inspired_by_pixel_art_palettes/">Reddit</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSdPbKTBWaQ">How to Change Themes in Emacs</a> (01:31)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gz-FOq9AIs">How to Inhibit the Welcome Screen in Emacs</a> (01:12)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr9IHzj_APQ">How to Maximize Emacs' Screen Upon Startup</a> (01:24)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsgg-uVJlIw">How to Hide the Tool Bar, Scroll Bar, and Menu Bar in Emacs</a> (02:00)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTgIJUwmz0Q">Nicolas Rougier's Talk at 39C3 - The art of text (rendering)</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1txnsrr/nicolas_rougiers_talk_at_39c3_the_art_of_text/">Reddit</a>) see discussion for more thoughts on SVG in Emacs</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Navigation:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tu9wvg/post_a_solution_embarkactonlastmessage/">Post a solution: embark-act-on-last-message</a></li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/vmargb/project-x">Project-x revived with Emacs 30+ support!</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tylkdz/projectx_revived_with_emacs_30_support/">Reddit</a>) - session persistence</li>
<li><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1txrf6o/little_llm_helper_function_for_copying_fileline/">Little LLM helper function for copying file:line coordinates</a></li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/jamescherti/kirigami.el">kirigami: A unified Emacs method to fold and unfold text in Emacs: outline, outline-indent, org-mode, markdown-mode, vdiff, hideshow, treesit-fold&hellip; [Release 1.1.2]​</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tup3tb/kirigami_a_unified_emacs_method_to_fold_and/">Reddit</a>)</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Writing:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://github.com/mmarshall540/electric-sentence">mmarshall540/electric-sentence: Automatically add the extra space between sentences in Emacs. · GitHub</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tynlmb/wrote_a_package_to_add_the_2nd_space_between/">Reddit</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/jamescherti/quick-sdcv.el">quick-sdcv: Emacs offline dictionary using 'sdcv' [Release 1.0.5]​</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tu6u91/quicksdcv_emacs_offline_dictionary_using_sdcv/">Reddit</a>, <a href="https://irreal.org/blog/?p=13848">Irreal</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tvrwet/notes_linking_and_tagging_systems_in_emacs/">Notes, Linking and Tagging systems in Emacs</a></li>
<li><a href="https://mahmoodsh.com/blk.html">blk</a>: creating and navigating titles of text files, linking between them</li>
<li><a href="https://blog.davep.org/2026/06/05/blogmore-el-v4-6-0.html">Dave Pearson: blogmore.el v4.6.0</a> - show toc, show toc inline</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Org Mode:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://bicycleforyourmind.com/much-ado-about-emacs-014">Much Ado About Emacs 014: Org-Mode and the Capture System</a>, creating headings at different levels, and changing bindings</li>
<li><a href="https://taonaw.com/2026/06/03/correcting-photo-orientation-for-orgmode.html">TAONAW - Emacs and Org Mode: Correcting photo orientation for org-mode in Linux</a> (<a href="https://irreal.org/blog/?p=13860">Irreal</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://citum.org/news/citing-with-citum-in-emacs-org-mode.html">Citing with Citum in Emacs org-mode | News | Citum</a> (<a href="https://mas.to/@bdarcus/116677048360094778">@bdarcus@mas.to</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://eugene-andrienko.com/it/2024/12/01/emacs-plugin-jekyll-blog.html">How I wrote an Emacs plugin to build my blog</a> (<a href="https://mastodon.bsd.cafe/@evgandr/116687815479622870">@evgandr@bsd.cafe</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://thecloudlet.github.io/technical/emacs/org-zola-workflow/">Migrating a Zola blog from Markdown to Org-mode — with a lint/export/check pipeline to keep them in sync | The Cloudlet</a></li>
<li>Org development: <a href="https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git/commit/etc/ORG-NEWS?id=3ea1682731fa061115bc690e76ce7d1d2955f810">Generate images in TOC for HTML export</a></li>
</ul></li>
<li>Completion:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://www.chiply.dev/post-incremental-suggesting-read">Beyond ICR: Incremental 'Suggesting' Read in Emacs</a> (<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnAavHqekp0">YouTube</a> 20:10, <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tvjp8l/beyond_icr_incremental_suggesting_read_in_emacs/">Reddit</a>, <a href="https://fosstodon.org/@chiply/116685381663629482">@chiply@fosstodon.org</a>)</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Coding:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://github.com/rschmukler/magit-difftastic">Introducing magit-difftastic: integrate difftastic into magit</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1twq1bg/introducing_magitdifftastic_integrate_difftastic/">Reddit</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/phye/inline-review">inline-review: review merge/pull requests directly within emacs</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1ttw2qg/inlinereview_review_mergepull_requests_directly/">Reddit</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.alcarney.me/blog/2026/alc-jj-log-view-mode/">Building alc-jj-log-view-mode — Alex Carney</a> (<a href="https://mastodon.social/@alcarney/116711382373829868">@alcarney</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://wassimans.com/blog/building-ios-apps-with-doom-emacs/">Building IOS Apps With Doom Emacs | Wassim Mansouri</a> (<a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48388710">HN</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thPsF9C2b10">CEDET for  Plan 9 coding</a> (01:14)</li>
<li><a href="https://oylenshpeegul.gitlab.io/blog/posts/20260601/">Tim Heaney: Ziglings</a></li>
</ul></li>
<li>Shells:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://www.alcarney.me/blog/2026/eshell-integration/">A Simple jj Integration for eshell — Alex Carney</a> (<a href="https://mastodon.social/@alcarney/116703207672988666">@alcarney</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://ray-on-emacs.blogspot.com/2026/06/exeln-execute-line.html">Raymond Zeitler: exeln: EXEcute LiNe</a>
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://ray-on-emacs.blogspot.com/2026/06/follow-on-to-exeln.html">Follow-on to exeln</a></li>
</ul></li>
</ul></li>
<li>Web:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://irreal.org/blog/?p=13846">Irreal: My Growing Appreciation For EWW</a></li>
</ul></li>
<li>Mail, news, and chat:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://ashishpanigrahi.com/blog/o365-offline-email/">Setting up offline email for Microsoft O365 with notmuch and emacs | Ashish Panigrahi</a> (<a href="https://ioc.exchange/@paniash/116711092886642906">@paniash@ioc.exchange</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2026/06/05/super-simple-spam-splitting-for-gnus/">Lars Ingebrigtsen: Super Simple Spam Splitting for Gnus</a></li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/emacs-elfeed/elfeed/blob/main/NEWS.org#version-400-2026-06-06">New Elfeed 4.0.0 release</a> (<a href="https://irreal.org/blog/?p=13862">Irreal</a>, <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48428652">HN</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://en.andros.dev/blog/1a6f3018/chatting-via-meshtastic-in-emacs/">Chatting via Meshtastic in Emacs | Andros Fenollosa</a></li>
</ul></li>
<li>Multimedia:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://mbork.pl/2026-06-06_Copying_images_in_Emacs">Marcin Borkowski: Copying images in Emacs</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUrTC4PrBpM">Kokoro-onnx with Cuda for text to speech with Emacs</a> (01:26:56)</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Fun:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://github.com/modeverv/wasmacs">I ported GNU Emacs 30.2 to the browser with WebAssembly</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tzy72g/i_ported_gnu_emacs_302_to_the_browser_with/">Reddit</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://ianyepan.github.io/posts/emacs-in-pop-culture/">Emacs Appearance in Pop Culture</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1u02d0v/emacs_appearance_in_pop_culture/">Reddit</a>)</li>
</ul></li>
<li>AI:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://kevinlynagh.com/newsletter/2026_05_difftron/">Structural diffing in Emacs; deterministic agent harnesses</a> (<a href="https://github.com/lynaghk/difftron/">GitHub</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/ananthakumaran/pi.el">Emacs client for Pi Coding Agent</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tz40nr/emacs_client_for_pi_coding_agent/">Reddit</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/jaketothepast/codetutor">jaketothepast/codetutor: An AI Pair Programmer, that teaches you to code as you write, for Emacs · GitHub</a> (<a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48449430">HN</a>)</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Community:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tueedh/fortnightly_tips_tricks_and_questions_20260602/">Fortnightly Tips, Tricks, and Questions — 2026-06-02 / week 22</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tudad3/learning_emacs_with_progressive_vision_loss/">Learning Emacs with Progressive Vision Loss</a></li>
<li><a href="https://kelar.org/~bandali/news/fsa-202605.html">Amin Bandali: Free software activities in May 2026</a></li>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/june-4-emacs-chat-with-ben-zanin-gnomon-mastodon-social/">Emacs Chat 25: Ben Zanin (@gnomon@mastodon.social)</a> (<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax4f5uaOHA8">YouTube</a> 59:30)</li>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/05/emacs-carnival-may-2026-may-i-recommend/">Sacha Chua: Emacs Carnival May 2026 wrap-up: "May I recommend&hellip;"</a></li>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/transcript-of-chat-with-matei-candea-about-emacs-and-ai/">Sacha Chua: Transcript of chat with Matei Candea about Emacs and AI</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqashZncNj4">This perfect text editor doesn't exist</a> (15:57)</li>
<li><a href="https://linuxblog.io/teco-neovim-text-editing-unix-linux/">From TECO to Neovim: 50 Years of Text Editing on Unix and Linux</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tzo58i/from_teco_to_neovim_50_years_of_text_editing_on/">Reddit</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.swi-prolog.org/PceEmacs.md">PceEmacs is an Emacs written in Prolog instead of Lisp! It also seems to support LSP</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tvn264/pceemacs_is_an_emacs_written_in_prolog_instead_of/">Reddit</a>)</li>
</ul></li>
<li><a href="https://rossabaker.com/blog/underappreciated-emacs-built-ins/">Emacs Carnival: Underappreciated Emacs Builtins</a>:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://www.homepages.ucl.ac.uk/~ucecesf/blog/20260602.html">Emacs carnival: rec mode, an all-text database system</a> (<a href="https://fediscience.org/@ericsfraga/116681034174534204">@ericsfraga@fediscience.org</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.cyan.sh/blog/posts/radical-builtins.html">Jakub Nowak: Radical Builtins</a></li>
<li><a href="https://wiki.plexwave.org/emacs-dwim-case-commands">Emacs DWIM case commands</a> by spnw</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Other:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://github.com/ErikPrantare/phony.el">phony.el: Define voice commands in Emacs</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tubei6/phonyel_define_voice_commands_in_emacs/">Reddit</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://bicycleforyourmind.com/much_ado_about_emacs_013">Bicycle for Your Mind: Much Ado About Emacs 013</a> - anddo.el (todos), substitute</li>
<li><a href="https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2026/06/03/todo-lists-and-procrastination/">Lars Ingebrigtsen: Todo Lists and Procrastination</a></li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/jamescherti/inhibit-mouse.el">jamescherti/inhibit-mouse.el 1.0.4</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tvwk7l/inhibitmouse_disable_the_mouse_in_emacs_release/">Reddit</a>, <a href="https://irreal.org/blog/?p=13853">Irreal</a>)</li>
<li><a href="http://yummymelon.com/devnull/revisiting-emacs-keyboard-macros-with-a-mouse.html">Charles Choi: Revisiting Emacs Keyboard Macros with a Mouse</a></li>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/emacs-pdf-view-replace-current-page-with-file-using-pdftk/">Sacha Chua: Emacs PDF View: Replace current page with file using PDFtk</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.yakshaving.co.uk/posts/conquering-the-emacs-daemon/">conquering the Emacs daemon - Blog In Isolation</a> (<a href="https://mastodon.me.uk/@andyc/116697585241088161">@andyc@mastodon.me.uk</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/tanrax/emacs-gpu">tanrax/emacs-gpu: GNU Emacs with a GPU-accelerated display backend · GitHub</a> (<a href="https://activity.andros.dev/@andros/statuses/01KT8T7D12K9A22FCZX0NXDV43">@andros@activity.andros.dev</a>)
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://yhetil.org/emacs-devel/0CAC2512-C560-4D1C-964B-46BBEF5228BF@subvertising.org/">emacs-devel re: overlap with Canvas patch</a>,<a href="https://yhetil.org/emacs-devel/571c261a-a4fc-4d7f-9ccb-afc6cb530547@gutov.dev/"> can't accept LLM-generated contributions</a></li>
</ul></li>
<li><a href="https://fedora-sysexts.github.io/fedora/emacs/">emacs | extensions.fcos.fr (Fedora)</a> (<a href="https://mastodon.social/@alcarney/116687391476450331">@alcarney</a>) - emacs sysext for Fedora image-based systems</li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/nohzafk/emacs-workspace-hud">I built a floating HUD for Emacs, rendered in Rust egui via WASM</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tw7u87/i_built_a_floating_hud_for_emacs_rendered_in_rust/">Reddit</a>) macOS</li>
<li><a href="http://yummymelon.com/devnull/opening-macos-finder-folders-in-emacs-with-scrim.html">Charles Choi: Opening macOS Finder Folders in Emacs with Scrim</a> (<a href="https://sfba.social/@kickingvegas/116678063857985054">@kickingvegas@sfba.social</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://unixbhaskar.wordpress.com/2026/06/03/damn-emacs-regex-problem/">Damn! Emacs Regex problem | Unixbhaskar's Blog</a> (<a href="https://fosstodon.org/@unixbhaskar/116682966197832720">@unixbhaskar@fosstodon.org</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omoGBS3rzEw">самый хайповый гайд на Emacs</a> (15:40)</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Emacs development:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li>emacs-devel: <a href="https://yhetil.org/emacs-devel/m2mrxes3bs.fsf@gmail.com/">markdown-ts-mode and markdown-ts-view-mode demoted on the release branch</a></li>
<li><a href="https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/etc/NEWS?id=1d91d9b717df1781c07d28f46af4ac2af19c16b4">project-vc-dir: Use truenames</a></li>
<li><a href="https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/etc/NEWS?id=66e02b3123a2f6845b1ec6e192f3820bb74d4a7b">(Fmarkers_in): New function (bug#81153)</a></li>
<li><a href="https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/etc/NEWS?id=2db5a145acbbe84042128806d8b2e333495cf70e">Support Ansible messages in compilation-mode</a></li>
</ul></li>
<li>New packages:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a target="_blank" href="https://melpa.org/#/bluesky">bluesky</a>: A Bluesky client (MELPA)</li>
<li><a target="_blank" href="https://melpa.org/#/cui">cui</a>: AI-LLM chat blocks for org-mode (MELPA)</li>
<li><a target="_blank" href="https://melpa.org/#/desert-theme">desert-theme</a>: A warm earthy port of Vim's desert theme (MELPA)</li>
<li><a target="_blank" href="https://elpa.nongnu.org/nongnu/flamegraph.html">flamegraph</a>: Flame graphs for Emacs's native profiler and folded stacks files (NonGNU ELPA)</li>
<li><a target="_blank" href="https://melpa.org/#/sleek-modeline">sleek-modeline</a>: Minimal and elegant modeline (MELPA)</li>
</ul></li>
</ul>

<p>
Links from <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs">reddit.com/r/emacs</a>, <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/orgmode">r/orgmode</a>, <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/spacemacs">r/spacemacs</a>, <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/emacs">Mastodon #emacs</a>, <a href="https://bsky.app/hashtag/emacs">Bluesky #emacs</a>, <a href="https://hn.algolia.com/?query=emacs&amp;sort=byDate&amp;prefix&amp;page=0&amp;dateRange=all&amp;type=story">Hacker News</a>, <a href="https://lobste.rs/search?q=emacs&amp;what=stories&amp;order=newest">lobste.rs</a>, <a href="https://programming.dev/c/emacs?dataType=Post&amp;page=1&amp;sort=New">programming.dev</a>, <a href="https://lemmy.world/c/emacs">lemmy.world</a>, <a href="https://lemmy.ml/c/emacs?dataType=Post&amp;page=1&amp;sort=New">lemmy.ml</a>, <a href="https://planet.emacslife.com">planet.emacslife.com</a>, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4th0AZixyREOtvxDpdxC9oMuX7Ar7Sdt">YouTube</a>, <a href="http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/log/etc/NEWS">the Emacs NEWS file</a>, <a href="https://emacslife.com/calendar/">Emacs Calendar</a>, and <a href="https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2026-06">emacs-devel</a>. Thanks to Andrés Ramírez for emacs-devel links. Do you have an Emacs-related link or announcement? Please e-mail me at <a href="mailto:sacha@sachachua.com">sacha@sachachua.com</a>. Thank you!
</p>
<div><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/2026-06-08-emacs-news/index.org">View Org source for this post</a></div>
<p>You can <a href="mailto:sacha@sachachua.com?subject=Comment%20on%20https%3A%2F%2Fsachachua.com%2Fblog%2F2026%2F06%2F2026-06-08-emacs-news%2F&body=Name%20you%20want%20to%20be%20credited%20by%20(if%20any)%3A%20%0AMessage%3A%20%0ACan%20I%20share%20your%20comment%20so%20other%20people%20can%20learn%20from%20it%3F%20Yes%2FNo%0A">e-mail me at sacha@sachachua.com</a>.</p>]]></description>
		</item><item>
		<title>June 18: Emacs Chat with Ross A. Baker</title>
		<link>https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/emacs-chat-with-ross-a-baker/</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sacha Chua]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2026 18:28:45 GMT</pubDate>
    <category>emacs</category>
<category>emacs-chat-podcast</category>
<category>emacs-chat</category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/emacs-chat-with-ross-a-baker/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>
On June 18, I'll chat with <a href="https://rossabaker.com/">Ross Baker</a> about Emacs and life.
</p>

<p>
</p><div class="yt-video"><iframe width="456" height="315" title="YouTube video player" src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/_tEcqbi_2o8?enablejsapi=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe><a href="https://youtube.com/live/_tEcqbi_2o8">Watch on YouTube</a></div>
<p></p>

<p>
<span class="timestamp-wrapper"><time class="timestamp" datetime="2026-06-18T10:30:00-0400">&lt;2026-06-18 Thu 10:30&gt;&ndash;&lt;2026-06-18 Thu 11:30&gt;</time></span> America/Toronto = Thu Jun 18 1030H EDT / 0930H CDT / 0830H MDT / 0730H PDT / 1430H UTC / 1630H CEST / 1730H EEST / 2000H IST / 2230H +08 / 2330H JST
</p>

<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://rossabaker.com/blog/">Blog</a>
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://rossabaker.com/tags/emacs/">Posts tagged #emacs</a></li>
</ul></li>
<li><a href="https://rossabaker.com/configs/emacs/">Emacs config</a>
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://rossabaker.com/configs/emacs/early-init/">Emacs Early Init</a></li>
<li><a href="https://rossabaker.com/configs/emacs/khlav-kalash/">Khlav Kalash Emacs</a></li>
<li><a href="https://rossabaker.com/configs/emacs/crab-juice/">Crab Juice Emacs</a></li>
<li><a href="https://rossabaker.com/configs/emacs/rab-starter/">Starter Emacs configuration</a></li>
</ul></li>
</ul>

<p>
This session will be recorded, and I'll update this blog post with notes.
<a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/emacs-chat-with-ross-a-baker/">https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/emacs-chat-with-ross-a-baker/</a>
</p>

<p>
Find more Emacs Chats or join the fun: <a href="https://sachachua.com/emacs-chat">https://sachachua.com/emacs-chat</a>
</p>
<div><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/emacs-chat-with-ross-a-baker/index.org">View Org source for this post</a></div>
<p>You can <a href="mailto:sacha@sachachua.com?subject=Comment%20on%20https%3A%2F%2Fsachachua.com%2Fblog%2F2026%2F06%2Femacs-chat-with-ross-a-baker%2F&body=Name%20you%20want%20to%20be%20credited%20by%20(if%20any)%3A%20%0AMessage%3A%20%0ACan%20I%20share%20your%20comment%20so%20other%20people%20can%20learn%20from%20it%3F%20Yes%2FNo%0A">e-mail me at sacha@sachachua.com</a>.</p>]]></description>
		</item><item>
		<title>Emacs PDF View: Replace current page with file using PDFtk</title>
		<link>https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/emacs-pdf-view-replace-current-page-with-file-using-pdftk/</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sacha Chua]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2026 00:35:27 GMT</pubDate>
    <category>emacs</category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/emacs-pdf-view-replace-current-page-with-file-using-pdftk/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>
I needed to replace a page in a PDF with another PDF. This was a bit
of an annoying process on my iPad involving copying and pasting pages
in Noteful and then re-exporting them as a PDF, but it was easy to do
in Emacs thanks to <a target="_blank" href="https://melpa.org/#/pdf-tools">pdf-tools</a> and <a href="https://www.pdflabs.com/tools/pdftk-server/">PDFtk</a>.
</p>


<div class="org-src-container">
<pre class="src src-emacs-lisp"><code><span class="org-comment-delimiter">;;;</span><span class="org-comment">###</span><span class="org-comment"><span class="org-warning">autoload</span></span>
(<span class="org-keyword">defun</span> <span class="org-function-name">sacha-pdf-view-replace-current-page-with-file</span> (file)
  <span class="org-doc">"Replace the current page in PDF View with FILE.</span>
<span class="org-doc">Requires pdftk."</span>
  (<span class="org-keyword">interactive</span> <span class="org-string">"FFile to insert: "</span>)
  (<span class="org-keyword">let</span> ((temp-file (concat (make-temp-name <span class="org-string">"pdf-view"</span>) <span class="org-string">".pdf"</span>)))
    (call-process
     <span class="org-string">"pdftk"</span>
     nil nil nil
     (concat <span class="org-string">"A="</span> (expand-file-name (buffer-file-name)))
     (concat <span class="org-string">"B="</span> (expand-file-name file))
     <span class="org-string">"cat"</span>
     (format <span class="org-string">"A%d-%d"</span>
             1
             (1- (<span class="org-keyword">pdf-view-current-page</span>)))
     <span class="org-string">"B"</span>
     (format <span class="org-string">"A%d-end"</span>
             (1+ (<span class="org-keyword">pdf-view-current-page</span>)))
     <span class="org-string">"output"</span>
     temp-file)
    (rename-file temp-file (buffer-file-name) t)))
</code></pre>
</div>


<div class="note">This is part of my <a href="https://sachachua.com/dotemacs#navigation-pdf-view-emacs-pdf-view-replace-current-page-with-file-using-pdftk">Emacs configuration.</a></div><div><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/emacs-pdf-view-replace-current-page-with-file-using-pdftk/index.org">View Org source for this post</a></div>
<p>You can <a href="mailto:sacha@sachachua.com?subject=Comment%20on%20https%3A%2F%2Fsachachua.com%2Fblog%2F2026%2F06%2Femacs-pdf-view-replace-current-page-with-file-using-pdftk%2F&body=Name%20you%20want%20to%20be%20credited%20by%20(if%20any)%3A%20%0AMessage%3A%20%0ACan%20I%20share%20your%20comment%20so%20other%20people%20can%20learn%20from%20it%3F%20Yes%2FNo%0A">e-mail me at sacha@sachachua.com</a>.</p>]]></description>
		</item><item>
		<title>Emacs Chat 25: Ben Zanin (@gnomon@mastodon.social)</title>
		<link>https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/june-4-emacs-chat-with-ben-zanin-gnomon-mastodon-social/</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sacha Chua]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2026 12:50:07 GMT</pubDate>
    <category>emacs</category>
<category>emacs-chat</category>
<category>emacs-chat-podcast</category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/june-4-emacs-chat-with-ben-zanin-gnomon-mastodon-social/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>
I chatted with Ben Zanin about music, Org Mode, Emacs in terminals and on an Android, keyboards, elfeed, and more.
<video preload="none" controls="1" src="https://archive.org/download/emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin/emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin.mp4" poster="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/june-4-emacs-chat-with-ben-zanin-gnomon-mastodon-social/2026-05-02-12-18-58%20ben-zanin.png" type="video/mp4"><track kind="subtitles" label="Captions" src="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/june-4-emacs-chat-with-ben-zanin-gnomon-mastodon-social/emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin.vtt" srclang="en" default=""><span>Video not supported. Thumbnail:<br><img src="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/june-4-emacs-chat-with-ben-zanin-gnomon-mastodon-social/2026-05-02-12-18-58%20ben-zanin.png" alt="Thumbnail"></span></video>
</p>

<p>
<a href="https://archive.org/details/emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin/">View in the Internet Archive</a>, <a href="https://youtube.com/live/ax4f5uaOHA8">watch or comment on YouTube</a>, <a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#ID-emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin-transcript">read the transcript online</a>, <a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/june-4-emacs-chat-with-ben-zanin-gnomon-mastodon-social/emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin.vtt">download the transcript</a>, or <a href="mailto:sacha@sachachua.com">e-mail me</a>.
</p>
<div id="outline-container-emacs-chats-emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin-gnomon-mastodon-social-related-links" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="emacs-chats-emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin-gnomon-mastodon-social-related-links"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#emacs-chats-emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin-gnomon-mastodon-social-related-links">Related links</a></h3>
<div class="outline-text-3" id="text-emacs-chats-emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin-gnomon-mastodon-social-related-links">
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://mastodon.social/@gnomon">Ben Zanin (@gnomon@mastodon.social) - Mastodon</a>: Robertson screwdriver owner, believer in the value of personal-scale computing and skeptic of the value of computing scales any larger than that</li>
<li><a href="https://git.sr.ht/~gnomon/emacs-config-gnomon">~gnomon/emacs-config-gnomon - An edited/truncated subset of my dotfiles repo to pick out only those commits and files that are pertinent to my emacs configuration, as of 2026-05-06 - sourcehut git</a></li>
<li><a href="https://git.sr.ht/~gnomon/">~gnomon's git repositories</a></li>
<li><a target="_blank" href="https://melpa.org/#/elfeed">elfeed</a>, <a target="_blank" href="https://melpa.org/#/elfeed-curate">elfeed-curate</a></li>
<li><a target="_blank" href="https://melpa.org/#/versuri">versuri</a> and <a target="_blank" href="https://melpa.org/#/mpdel">mpdel</a> - lyrics, music</li>
<li><a target="_blank" href="https://melpa.org/#/avy">avy</a></li>
<li><a href="https://wezterm.org/index.html">WezTerm - Wez's Terminal Emulator</a></li>
<li><a href="https://keychron.ca/products/keychron-b11-pro-ultra-slim-wireless-foldable-keyboard-us-ansi-layout">Keychron B11 Pro Ultra-Slim Wireless Foldable Keyboard (US ANSI Layout – Keychron Canada</a></li>
<li>tea-timer and <a target="_blank" href="https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/tmr.html">tmr</a></li>
</ul>

<p>
You can add the iCal for upcoming Emacs Chat episodes to your calendar. <a href="https://sachachua.com/topic/emacs-chat/upcoming-emacs-chats.ics">https://sachachua.com/topic/emacs-chat/upcoming-emacs-chats.ics</a>
</p>

<p>
Find more Emacs Chats or join the fun: <a href="https://sachachua.com/emacs-chat">https://sachachua.com/emacs-chat</a>
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="outline-container-emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin-chapters" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin-chapters"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin-chapters">Chapters</a></h3>
<div class="outline-text-3" id="text-emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin-chapters">
<p>
</p><ul class="org-ul">
<li><span class="audio-time" data-start="0.031" data-stop="10.045">0:00</span> How Ben got started with Emacs</li>
<li><span class="audio-time" data-start="139.485" data-stop="141.007">2:19</span> Ben got into Emacs because of twittering-mode</li>
<li><span class="audio-time" data-start="270.959" data-stop="272.721">4:30</span> Emacs as a media playback platform with Versuri and Mpdel</li>

<li><span class="audio-time" data-start="553.547" data-stop="557.492">9:13</span> Emacs on Android with Termux</li>
<li><span class="audio-time" data-start="824.296" data-stop="825.958">13:44</span> Keyboards and other devices</li>
<li><span class="audio-time" data-start="1004.195" data-stop="1005.818">16:44</span> Benefits of a split keyboard</li>
<li><span class="audio-time" data-start="1102.053" data-stop="1104.759">18:22</span> Meeting workflow</li>
<li><span class="audio-time" data-start="1271.710" data-stop="1272.731">21:11</span> Narrowing</li>
<li><span class="audio-time" data-start="1378.718" data-stop="1381.541">22:58</span> There's even an internal Slack channel about Emacs at Ben's company</li>
<li><span class="audio-time" data-start="1490.340" data-stop="1491.823">24:50</span> Ben keeps Org capture templates as individual files and adapts them to different meeting flows</li>
<li><span class="audio-time" data-start="1725.936" data-stop="1728.220">28:45</span> Personal-scale software and the journey</li>
<li><span class="audio-time" data-start="2047.728" data-stop="2049.592">34:07</span> vc-git-grep for finding notes again</li>
<li><span class="audio-time" data-start="2267.997" data-stop="2271.202">37:47</span> Keybindings and terminals; wezterm</li>
<li><span class="audio-time" data-start="2558.779" data-stop="2559.861">42:38</span> Timers: tea-timer, tmr</li>
<li><span class="audio-time" data-start="2637.198" data-stop="2641.697">43:57</span> Different stages of package use</li>
<li><span class="audio-time" data-start="2687.672" data-stop="2689.134">44:47</span> Elfeed</li>
<li><span class="audio-time" data-start="3193.206" data-stop="3195.168">53:13</span> Bookmark naming conventions</li>
<li><span class="audio-time" data-start="3230.986" data-stop="3232.609">53:50</span> elfeed-curate for annotations</li>
<li><span class="audio-time" data-start="3346.164" data-stop="3348.488">55:46</span> mytoots archives Mastodon toots</li>
<li><span class="audio-time" data-start="3425.065" data-stop="3425.726">57:05</span> Mentoring offer</li>
<li><span class="audio-time" data-start="3482.003" data-stop="3483.306">58:02</span> A local instance of public-inbox can let you use Gnus to read mailing lists quickly</li>
</ul>

<p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="outline-container-emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin-transcript-section" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin-transcript-section"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin-transcript-section">Transcript</a></h3>
<div class="outline-text-3" id="text-emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin-transcript-section">
<p>
Still needs editing
</p>

<details class="code-details"><a name="ID-emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin-transcript"></a><summary>Expand this to read the transcript</summary>
<p>
</p><div class="full-transcript"><p></p><div class="transcript-heading"><span class="audio-time" data-start="0.000000">0:00</span> <strong>How Ben got started with Emacs</strong></div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="0.031000" data-stop="10.045000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I forgot to ask you how your last</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="10.085000" data-stop="10.886000">name is pronounced.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="11.527000" data-stop="13.429000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Oh, Zanin.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="13.629000" data-stop="17.354000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  This is Emacs chat number 25 and here I am with</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="18.155000" data-stop="18.896000">Ben Zanin.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="20.479000" data-stop="22.722000">You have a math background and now you're in IT.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="24.364000" data-stop="26.747000">Where did you encounter Emacs in the journey?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="28.415000" data-stop="29.557000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  So the reason I have a math</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="29.577000" data-stop="31.802000">background is that I wanted to get into</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="31.862000" data-stop="34.888000">programming language design and at the time so</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="34.928000" data-stop="37.193000">that led me over to lambda calculus and that kind</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="37.233000" data-stop="40.619000">of thing and at the time it was at the time I was</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="40.640000" data-stop="44.888000">getting into university in like 2005-2006</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="45.543000" data-stop="47.633000">It was impossible to get into the computer programs,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="47.634000" data-stop="49.200000">but I could get into math.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="49.201000" data-stop="52.500000">I figured that would move me in the direction that I wanted</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="52.501000" data-stop="55.067000">to go in, so I did.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="55.068000" data-stop="58.167000">Got to third year, and then every professor</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="58.168000" data-stop="59.933000">who taught any of the courses I cared about</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="59.934000" data-stop="61.500000">all left the faculty at the same time.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="61.501000" data-stop="62.967000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Oh no!</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="62.968000" data-stop="66.820000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Yeah. Anyhow, that's a different story.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="66.821000" data-stop="70.564000">But yeah, I got into Emacs because in the process</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="70.624000" data-stop="73.026000">of learning about Lambda Calculus, the Lisp</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="73.046000" data-stop="73.927000">weenies found me.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="74.827000" data-stop="77.990000">And yeah, I spent a bunch of time learning about</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="78.050000" data-stop="78.270000">that.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="78.671000" data-stop="81.994000">And it wasn't until like 10 years after I got</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="82.034000" data-stop="84.096000">into Common Lisp and Scheme that I actually got</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="84.156000" data-stop="85.697000">into Emacs at all.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="85.737000" data-stop="87.298000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  That's interesting.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="87.318000" data-stop="89.300000">Usually people, like, if they're doing Lispy</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="89.340000" data-stop="91.362000">things, they get into Emacs right away because</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="91.522000" data-stop="91.822000">Lisp.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="91.942000" data-stop="93.724000">But okay, so 10 years after.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="93.923000" data-stop="96.067000"></span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="96.068000" data-stop="98.833000">You're already well-used to parentheses at that point.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="98.834000" data-stop="100.133000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Yes.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="100.134000" data-stop="105.500000">But I guess it wasn't until about ten years ago,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="105.501000" data-stop="106.200000">like around 2015 or so,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="106.201000" data-stop="108.167000">that I started really getting into Emacs.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="108.168000" data-stop="111.400000">I would still consider myself to be a beginner on that front.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="111.401000" data-stop="114.210000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Oh yeah? So what got you to get into it more?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="115.456000" data-stop="121.383000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  I found that I was looking for more structured</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="123.225000" data-stop="126.049000">data management processes.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="126.590000" data-stop="128.011000">Basically, I was looking for personal information</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="128.071000" data-stop="129.193000">management.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="129.213000" data-stop="131.976000">And I kept bouncing off Emacs because I wanted to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="132.096000" data-stop="135.100000">get into those tasks, but Emacs was such a rich</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="135.320000" data-stop="137.182000">learning process that I kept getting sidetracked,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="137.202000" data-stop="138.264000">so I kept bouncing off of it.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading"><span class="audio-time" data-start="139.000000">2:19</span> <strong>Ben got into Emacs because of twittering-mode</strong></div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="139.485000" data-stop="141.007000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong> But I have to admit that one of the things that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="141.067000" data-stop="142.869000">originally actually got me into Emacs was</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="142.889000" data-stop="143.630000">twittering mode.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="144.672000" data-stop="145.092000">Oh yeah?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="145.072000" data-stop="147.454000">Because I was looking for a tool that would let</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="147.535000" data-stop="151.839000">me, we'll probably get into this later in the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="151.879000" data-stop="153.140000">chat, but I was looking for a tool that would let</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="153.180000" data-stop="156.023000">me keep a larger window of context about the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="156.043000" data-stop="157.125000">conversations that I've been in.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="157.785000" data-stop="162.230000">The Twitter apps and the Twitter website</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="163.932000" data-stop="165.773000">implemented a really narrow window.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="166.194000" data-stop="167.796000">I wanted to be able to search back a couple</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="167.816000" data-stop="169.517000">of weeks for stuff that I had seen or talked</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="169.557000" data-stop="170.198000">about previously.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="170.879000" data-stop="173.982000">Twittering-mode gave me the ability to keep</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="174.535000" data-stop="177.600000">days or weeks of context in a single buffer</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="177.601000" data-stop="178.767000">that I could then immediately search.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="178.768000" data-stop="181.933000">So I didn't actually get into Emacs as a text editor,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="181.934000" data-stop="184.067000">I got into it as an application platform,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="184.068000" data-stop="186.167000">and then gradually learned the rest of it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="186.168000" data-stop="189.900000">This is actually fantastic. So I kind of stuck around after that.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="189.901000" data-stop="191.878000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  That is the first time I've heard of someone</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="191.918000" data-stop="193.540000">coming to Emacs because of Twitter.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="194.667000" data-stop="196.048000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  No, it's deeply embarrassing.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="196.769000" data-stop="198.171000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  No, it's wonderful.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="198.771000" data-stop="200.833000">I love that there's just so many</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="200.894000" data-stop="202.615000">reasons why people come and the fact that you</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="202.635000" data-stop="204.317000">could find something that would let you take</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="204.377000" data-stop="208.101000">those notes and see that context and reply to it,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="208.201000" data-stop="210.744000">and even, as I see in your config, work around</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="210.764000" data-stop="212.806000">slow keyboard response issues.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="213.787000" data-stop="216.650000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  And also the fact that that's still</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="216.790000" data-stop="218.392000">in the config despite Twitter itself...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="218.472000" data-stop="221.675000">I think I abandoned it in 2017, but it takes me a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="221.715000" data-stop="224.218000">little while to rip things out of my config.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="224.401000" data-stop="225.583000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Yeah, I see you're a lot more</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="225.683000" data-stop="228.007000">active in Mastodon these days. I see your</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="228.067000" data-stop="231.213000">Monsterdon posts scrolled by my feed every so often.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="233.116000" data-stop="237.042000">Yeah, so we dove right into that because a lot</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="237.083000" data-stop="238.826000">of the stuff in your config is interesting and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="238.866000" data-stop="239.727000">your workflows too.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="240.382000" data-stop="242.725000">My idea for these Emacs chats is to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="242.785000" data-stop="244.747000">show people the kind of stuff that isn't</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="244.807000" data-stop="246.849000">immediately obvious to newbies when they're</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="246.889000" data-stop="248.091000">looking at someone's config.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="248.411000" data-stop="250.414000">Because a lot of the stuff is new workflows and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="250.474000" data-stop="252.876000">how the keyboard shortcuts work together and how</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="252.896000" data-stop="254.819000">this stuff fits into your life.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="255.399000" data-stop="257.601000">That's not immediately obvious from the code.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="258.183000" data-stop="262.467000">I've taken a look at your config, but before</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="262.507000" data-stop="265.351000">we jump into the gazillion things I wanted to ask</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="265.371000" data-stop="267.133000">you about, are there things that you particularly</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="267.213000" data-stop="269.055000">love about your Emacs workflow?</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading"><span class="audio-time" data-start="270.000000">4:30</span> <strong>Emacs as a media playback platform with Versuri and Mpdel
</strong></div><p></p><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/june-4-emacs-chat-with-ben-zanin-gnomon-mastodon-social/emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin-00-07-24-567.jpg"><img loading="lazy" target="_blank" src="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/june-4-emacs-chat-with-ben-zanin-gnomon-mastodon-social/emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin-00-07-24-567.jpg" alt="image from video 00:07:24.567" data-time="00:07:24.567"></a><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="270.959000" data-stop="272.721000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  I'm probably going to get</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="272.761000" data-stop="275.525000">a little bit of deserved flak for this, but I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="275.605000" data-stop="278.088000">use Emacs a lot as a media playback platform.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="279.110000" data-stop="284.277000">I spend a lot of time using Emacs to listen to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="284.337000" data-stop="285.558000">music through MPV.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="285.578000" data-stop="288.723000">And I've got some integration with Versuri, which</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="288.783000" data-stop="289.744000">lets me...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="289.724000" data-stop="292.128000">I think you've seen those customizations</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="292.188000" data-stop="294.593000">where what I've done is I've kind of duct-taped</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="294.633000" data-stop="295.314000">the two together.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="295.394000" data-stop="298.460000">Versuri is an Emacs package for being able to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="298.600000" data-stop="301.224000">quickly search through lyrics for songs.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="301.846000" data-stop="304.831000">What I've done is I've bound Versuri to the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="304.871000" data-stop="305.472000">point where</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="306.447000" data-stop="309.673000">I've pulled up a page of lyrics, I now have a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="309.693000" data-stop="312.859000">hotkey that bounces me over to a search of my MPD</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="312.899000" data-stop="315.444000">library for where that song is, and vice versa.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="316.345000" data-stop="318.950000">I've got MPD rigged up so that when I've got a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="319.311000" data-stop="321.134000">song currently playing, I can bounce into</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="321.154000" data-stop="322.978000">Verisuri to display the lyrics for that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="322.998000" data-stop="324.220000">particular song.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="324.200000" data-stop="326.784000">Something you probably have not seen in my config</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="326.804000" data-stop="328.246000">yet because I haven't finished it yet...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="328.406000" data-stop="330.208000">What I'm working on is actually integrating</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="330.209000" data-stop="335.256000">Org Mode with MPD, because I'd really like to be able to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="335.636000" data-stop="338.481000">streamline my process where occasionally when I'm</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="338.541000" data-stop="340.003000">listening to something, I'll take notes either</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="340.023000" data-stop="341.545000">about the lyrics or about the song. I'd like</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="341.565000" data-stop="344.670000">to be able to link from Org Mode directly to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="345.030000" data-stop="347.133000">either that song, that album, or that particular</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="347.173000" data-stop="347.794000">timecode.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="348.736000" data-stop="351.753000">I don't have that yet, but I'm working on it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="351.794000" data-stop="353.825000">I think I'll probably lean on it quite a bit once</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="353.866000" data-stop="354.308000">I have it.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="354.811000" data-stop="355.512000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Yeah, yeah.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="356.253000" data-stop="358.436000">I saw your tweet from May, I think, where you're</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="358.476000" data-stop="360.719000">talking about coming up with this</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="360.739000" data-stop="361.720000">way of taking notes.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="361.840000" data-stop="366.045000">think if you come up with maybe a custom</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="366.246000" data-stop="369.430000">Org Mode link type that can store the annotation</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="369.490000" data-stop="371.833000">and then let you go to it, I think that would be</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="371.913000" data-stop="372.634000">really interesting.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="372.674000" data-stop="374.636000">Especially if you figure out, okay, like, are you</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="374.656000" data-stop="375.778000">taking notes in the album?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="375.798000" data-stop="376.979000">Are you taking notes on the song?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="376.999000" data-stop="379.322000">Are you taking notes on this moment in the song?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="379.863000" data-stop="381.124000">That could all be very cool.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="383.836000" data-stop="385.778000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Actually, do you mind if I share my screen?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="385.898000" data-stop="387.180000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Please.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="387.800000" data-stop="389.022000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  So one of the things I wanted to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="389.722000" data-stop="397.791000">kind of note was... Let me... Oh yeah, this is</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="397.851000" data-stop="400.134000">actually going to be further embarrassing.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="400.374000" data-stop="402.757000">I'm a terminal Emacs user.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="403.257000" data-stop="403.738000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I saw.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="404.198000" data-stop="405.940000">Can you increase the font size, though?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="406.060000" data-stop="406.641000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Absolutely, yeah.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="406.661000" data-stop="408.483000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Resizing your terminal so it's smaller</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="408.543000" data-stop="409.624000">makes everything look bigger...</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="410.144000" data-stop="410.645000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Is that better?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="411.146000" data-stop="411.527000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  More.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="412.249000" data-stop="413.011000">Some of us are older.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="413.652000" data-stop="414.474000">Thank you.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="416.700000" data-stop="422.213000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  One of the things that's kind of unusual about</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="423.762000" data-stop="428.329000">my MPD configuration is I've got a satellite config.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="428.330000" data-stop="430.452000">Sorry, the line wrap is a little bit off here.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="430.453000" data-stop="431.635000">What this means is that I have...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="431.655000" data-stop="434.100000">the household file server maintains the MPD</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="434.140000" data-stop="437.065000">library, but I've got multiple playback nodes</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="437.105000" data-stop="441.132000">around the house. What that lets me do is...</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="442.013000" data-stop="447.222000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  You can play stuff on this...</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="448.113000" data-stop="451.863000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  So what this means is that I'm controlling the...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="451.903000" data-stop="454.529000">well, in this case, that's a little</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="454.530000" data-stop="458.119000">MeLE Quieter3C that I've got in the living room</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="458.140000" data-stop="459.844000">that's kind of like the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="460.297000" data-stop="462.361000">the home media server, the home playback machine.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="463.403000" data-stop="468.351000">Fundamentally, I'm an ops guy, I'm a sys admin,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="468.352000" data-stop="471.017000">and I've got, unfortunately, a fleet of machines around the house.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="474.383000" data-stop="477.349000">What this lets me do is easily control each</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="477.429000" data-stop="478.170000">one of them.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="478.673000" data-stop="480.877000">Instead of each one maintaining its own</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="480.937000" data-stop="484.243000">library of music files, the file server itself</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="484.323000" data-stop="487.148000">indexes them, which means that library updates</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="487.188000" data-stop="489.793000">are almost instantaneous, instead of having to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="489.853000" data-stop="491.977000">read over the network to pull metadata out of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="491.997000" data-stop="493.339000">each individual file.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="494.582000" data-stop="496.986000">So having a satellite setup lets me...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="498.164000" data-stop="503.932000">The real benefit is that MPD tracks albums,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="504.013000" data-stop="506.416000">directories, and files as URLs.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="506.977000" data-stop="508.559000">That means that I have a single global</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="508.599000" data-stop="510.923000">namespace of URLs for all of the media that's</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="510.963000" data-stop="512.725000">currently in the library, which means that I can</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="512.846000" data-stop="516.851000">annotate from any machine, but have it mean one thing.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="520.912000" data-stop="523.861000">It makes it convenient for navigation, but it</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="523.902000" data-stop="525.768000">also makes it convenient for keeping notes, which</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="525.809000" data-stop="527.514000">I'm currently doing manually and working on those</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="527.635000" data-stop="529.662000">Org link types to be able to make it a little bit</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="531.207000" data-stop="532.491000">more smooth than it currently is.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="532.859000" data-stop="535.142000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  So you've got your central store of music files.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="535.583000" data-stop="538.386000">You've got URLs for them so you can talk about them.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="538.447000" data-stop="541.370000">That's just one identifier per song.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="541.771000" data-stop="545.236000">You've got multiple speakers that you can use</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="545.276000" data-stop="548.560000">your completing interface to say, okay, I want to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="548.580000" data-stop="549.702000">play this over there.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="550.623000" data-stop="553.026000">You have Emacs controlling all of that.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading"><span class="audio-time" data-start="553.000000">9:13</span> <strong>Emacs on Android with Termux</strong></div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="553.547000" data-stop="557.492000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong> Now, is that Emacs on your laptop and you just</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="557.532000" data-stop="559.034000">take it around and you say, okay, I'm going to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="559.074000" data-stop="560.596000">sit in the living room for a little bit or</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="560.636000" data-stop="561.730000">whatever and play there.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="562.091000" data-stop="563.372000">Or do you... Ah, there you go.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="563.432000" data-stop="565.014000">That's what I was going to ask.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="565.214000" data-stop="565.494000">All right.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="565.514000" data-stop="566.475000">So Emacs on your phone.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="567.296000" data-stop="572.281000">The Android port or Termux?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="572.301000" data-stop="573.822000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  I have both installed.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="573.842000" data-stop="575.244000">I think you actually saw this a few months</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="575.284000" data-stop="577.046000">ago when I was running performance comparisons</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="577.506000" data-stop="581.009000">between the Termux version of Emacs and the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="581.050000" data-stop="582.991000">native port, and found that the native port</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="583.272000" data-stop="585.793000">generally ran anything CPU-intensive</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="585.794000" data-stop="586.835000">roughly twice as fast.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="587.956000" data-stop="590.659000">But I still use the Termux version because it's...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="591.820000" data-stop="592.902000">I'm not sure if you played around with the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="592.982000" data-stop="595.466000">Android terminal virtualization layer at all, but</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="595.506000" data-stop="597.669000">it's not great.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="598.891000" data-stop="601.215000">I really appreciate the integration that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="601.976000" data-stop="604.981000">Termux gives me with Android features.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="605.442000" data-stop="607.085000">For example, being able to query the sensors,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="607.585000" data-stop="610.089000">such as GPS or temperature sensors, and I can</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="610.150000" data-stop="613.575000">actually pull those in from the Emacs side.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="614.618000" data-stop="616.661000">And that's something I kind of want to get into.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="616.681000" data-stop="618.985000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  What do you think of using the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="619.025000" data-stop="620.107000">temperature sensors for?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="621.970000" data-stop="622.892000">What can Emacs do with that?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="624.013000" data-stop="626.037000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  It's not so much the fact that I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="626.197000" data-stop="628.060000">use the temperature sensors as that when I pull</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="628.220000" data-stop="630.384000">the sensors, that's the most remarkable value</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="630.404000" data-stop="631.065000">that I get out of it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="632.287000" data-stop="634.190000">But one of the interesting things is the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="634.230000" data-stop="636.694000">barometric pressure sensor, which gives me</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="637.214000" data-stop="641.461000">height, which matters because when I'm out and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="641.501000" data-stop="645.206000">about and if I stop to record an entry in my</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="645.247000" data-stop="646.929000">journal, for example, I'll just pull the sensors</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="646.989000" data-stop="650.595000">and dump them into the header in the entry that I'm writing.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="651.476000" data-stop="654.080000">The barometric sensor, I'll get the GPS, so</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="654.100000" data-stop="657.606000">that'll tell me what the actual height is at that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="657.666000" data-stop="659.529000">location on the earth. The barometric sensor</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="659.569000" data-stop="661.652000">also gives me a little bit of insight into the weather.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="661.717000" data-stop="664.220000">So it's not so much the temperature sensor</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="664.280000" data-stop="666.623000">is what my temperature is, but just like if</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="666.683000" data-stop="667.444000">it's a hot day or not.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="668.065000" data-stop="669.727000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I am very curious about that setup.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="669.767000" data-stop="672.431000">So if you happen to share your, I don't know, Org</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="672.471000" data-stop="675.375000">capture for Termux that includes all these things...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="675.675000" data-stop="677.538000">You don't have to show me the actual stuff, but</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="677.578000" data-stop="680.562000">you know, at some point I think other people will</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="680.602000" data-stop="683.345000">be curious about what kind of benefits they can</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="683.365000" data-stop="685.508000">get from running Emacs on their phones.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="686.790000" data-stop="690.154000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  So, I mean, I guess I'll...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="690.590000" data-stop="695.267000">One of the benefits that I get is the ability to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="696.698000" data-stop="697.579000">keep shopping.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="697.599000" data-stop="700.903000">So I'm a little bit of a militant cyclist.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="701.183000" data-stop="704.888000">One of the things that I often do is leave</span> <p></p><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/june-4-emacs-chat-with-ben-zanin-gnomon-mastodon-social/emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin-00-12-04-333.jpg"><img loading="lazy" target="_blank" src="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/june-4-emacs-chat-with-ben-zanin-gnomon-mastodon-social/emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin-00-12-04-333.jpg" alt="image from video 00:12:04.333" data-time="00:12:04.333"></a><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="704.928000" data-stop="707.671000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong> notes about things that I need to take care of in</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="707.711000" data-stop="709.413000">particular areas of the city.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="709.954000" data-stop="712.797000">The nice thing is that I can just drop them</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="712.858000" data-stop="719.846000">directly in commits right as I'm going.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="719.866000" data-stop="723.130000">So I often have a long list of updates that are</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="723.791000" data-stop="725.693000">from Emacs on my phone, just because it's convenient.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="727.276000" data-stop="728.017000">All right.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="728.037000" data-stop="730.541000">There we go for Monsterdon, in fact.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="730.821000" data-stop="731.802000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Nice, nice.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="732.383000" data-stop="734.084000">Then that's</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="734.085000" data-stop="736.889000">Syncthing or whatever else to just get it copied back</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="736.909000" data-stop="737.800000">to your laptop or just on your phone?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="737.801000" data-stop="738.932000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Straight Magit mode.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="739.373000" data-stop="740.555000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Oh, yeah?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="741.035000" data-stop="742.117000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  That's one of the things that I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="742.177000" data-stop="743.759000">found was a little bit clunkier when I was</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="743.819000" data-stop="748.646000">running virtualized Emacs under the Android</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="748.686000" data-stop="752.491000">emulator and also the native Android port of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="752.571000" data-stop="753.132000">Emacs.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="754.158000" data-stop="757.547000">They are a little bit more troublesome to get</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="757.627000" data-stop="758.971000">Magit to work.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="759.232000" data-stop="761.157000">Because I rely on that for syncing back and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="761.197000" data-stop="761.959000">forth from my phone,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="763.243000" data-stop="764.927000">that's one of the reasons why I stuck with Termux.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="765.346000" data-stop="766.928000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Very cool, very cool.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="767.228000" data-stop="770.252000">I like Termux's little bar of extra</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="770.352000" data-stop="772.195000">keyboard keys that you can have, so you can have</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="772.235000" data-stop="773.897000">a regular keyboard and then you can just have</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="773.937000" data-stop="776.561000">your Controls and your Alts and whatever on that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="776.621000" data-stop="777.582000">little extra bar.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="778.143000" data-stop="781.046000">Termux is quite interesting.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="781.807000" data-stop="783.069000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  I think I'm probably pushing it</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="783.129000" data-stop="784.791000">harder than it is meant to be pushed.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="784.811000" data-stop="786.173000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  That's the fun of it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="786.814000" data-stop="788.656000">I don't exactly know how everything will shake</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="788.756000" data-stop="791.760000">out, but probably with Google trying to lock down</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="791.800000" data-stop="793.142000">the developer ecosystem</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="793.392000" data-stop="794.373000">in a few months, right?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="794.393000" data-stop="796.515000">They're saying, oh, you know, it's got to be ADB</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="796.635000" data-stop="799.137000">in order to get these unsigned apps on.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="799.177000" data-stop="800.599000">We'll have to see how it all shakes out.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="801.299000" data-stop="803.461000">But I'm hoping Termux can survive because I like</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="803.501000" data-stop="803.982000">that one too.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="804.883000" data-stop="805.503000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Yeah, me too.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="806.985000" data-stop="808.766000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Okay, so you've got interesting</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="808.806000" data-stop="812.049000">music, an interesting music setup with lyrics and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="812.089000" data-stop="813.411000">playback and all that stuff.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="813.431000" data-stop="816.594000">You've got your phone, which also runs Emacs and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="816.774000" data-stop="818.916000">from which you can, you've also set it up so you</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="818.956000" data-stop="820.477000">can control your music from your phone?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="821.018000" data-stop="821.458000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Yes.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="821.793000" data-stop="823.255000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Okay.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading"><span class="audio-time" data-start="824.000000">13:44</span> <strong>Keyboards and other devices</strong></div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="824.296000" data-stop="825.958000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong> When I was reading through your toots, I noticed</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="826.038000" data-stop="828.300000">you like to play around with other keyboards and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="828.340000" data-stop="829.882000">other devices like the 8BitDo.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="830.143000" data-stop="831.965000">Do you have any of that talking to Emacs too?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="833.647000" data-stop="835.288000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  [Keychron B11 Pro is] the keyboard I'm currently using.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="837.010000" data-stop="839.133000">I got this so I could keep it in my purse and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="839.173000" data-stop="840.835000">just like walk around with it, but it turns out</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="840.895000" data-stop="844.038000">it's super comfortable and I'm accidentally using</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="844.058000" data-stop="844.839000">it as a daily driver.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="845.180000" data-stop="845.460000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  All right.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="845.500000" data-stop="847.022000">Name-drop the keyboard for all the people who</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="847.062000" data-stop="849.825000">like the device recommendations.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="850.042000" data-stop="852.667000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  It's a Keychron B11 Pro.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="852.787000" data-stop="853.629000">It runs ZMK.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="855.272000" data-stop="856.093000">ZMK, I suppose.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="856.514000" data-stop="858.136000">And if you've seen me interacting with</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="858.137000" data-stop="860.441000">Pete Johanson on Mastodon, he's the lead developer of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="860.481000" data-stop="861.263000">that firmware package.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="861.583000" data-stop="863.767000">It's a little bit like QMK, except that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="864.669000" data-stop="867.514000">fundamentally QMK is a polling architecture, and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="867.554000" data-stop="870.540000">it works really well for very restricted</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="870.580000" data-stop="871.261000">microcontrollers.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="871.802000" data-stop="876.689000">ZMK is interrupt-based, which means it is</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="877.049000" data-stop="880.493000">tremendously more efficient in terms of power draw.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="880.513000" data-stop="881.875000">So if you want a Bluetooth keyboard, you should</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="881.895000" data-stop="882.976000">probably run ZMK on it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="883.116000" data-stop="885.398000">Anyhow, yeah, it's fantastic.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="885.418000" data-stop="889.022000">And I do have a bit of a keyboard problem where I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="889.423000" data-stop="893.006000">tend to...</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="893.007000" data-stop="895.069000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Many Emacs people have keyboard problems.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="895.690000" data-stop="898.593000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Right? I feel like I'm in good company right now.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="900.775000" data-stop="901.716000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Yeah, yeah, yeah.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="903.265000" data-stop="905.931000">So, devices, yep, gotcha.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="905.951000" data-stop="908.296000">And this has become your main keyboard even for</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="908.737000" data-stop="909.539000">regular computing?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="910.140000" data-stop="911.603000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  In the last couple of weeks, yeah.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="911.684000" data-stop="913.047000">It's super comfortable.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="913.067000" data-stop="915.853000">Because it's so flat, I can get away without</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="915.893000" data-stop="918.058000">having to use palm rests to actually keep in a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="918.118000" data-stop="918.739000">decent posture,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="919.441000" data-stop="922.287000">because of the curvature of it..</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="922.790000" data-stop="924.273000">Like, it's an Alice layout.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="924.934000" data-stop="926.536000">The key travel isn't too bad.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="926.577000" data-stop="927.558000">It's actually quite comfortable.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="929.181000" data-stop="930.824000">I found that I needed a little bit of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="930.864000" data-stop="933.068000">acclimatization to get used to split keyboards.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="933.749000" data-stop="938.557000">This one has roughly the spread of a split,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="938.577000" data-stop="940.821000">but it seems to be easier for my muscle memory.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="940.841000" data-stop="943.045000">So yeah, I didn't intend to leave it on my desk,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="943.125000" data-stop="946.030000">but it stuck and has kind of stayed there for now.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="946.499000" data-stop="948.583000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Does it have any special ergonomics</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="948.683000" data-stop="951.429000">for all the modifiers that we like to do?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="952.812000" data-stop="955.177000">Or do you just use Caps as Control or whatever else?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="956.720000" data-stop="958.343000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Actually, I don't use Caps as</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="958.423000" data-stop="960.027000">Control and I actually really need to get into</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="960.067000" data-stop="960.728000">remapping that.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="961.518000" data-stop="966.064000">ZMK has a very rich remapping story, as I expect</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="966.084000" data-stop="968.588000">you to imagine, from a custom firmware.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="969.149000" data-stop="972.954000">The macros are intense, and you can get</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="972.994000" data-stop="974.256000">really deep in customization.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="974.276000" data-stop="975.778000">I have done none of that on this keyboard</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="975.798000" data-stop="978.602000">yet, because it's only, I think, a couple of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="978.642000" data-stop="979.543000">months old at this point.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="980.249000" data-stop="981.251000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  You've been settling in.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="981.331000" data-stop="983.174000">As you said, this has been your</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="983.435000" data-stop="984.737000">main keyboard for a little while.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="985.378000" data-stop="987.382000">Charlie Baker says, "yeah, I love the split keyboard.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="987.442000" data-stop="989.105000">Recently bought one myself.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="989.246000" data-stop="990.909000">I was getting so much neck pain, you know,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="990.949000" data-stop="992.772000">shoulder and neck pain from so many hours keeping</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="992.832000" data-stop="994.014000">hands close together."</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="994.034000" data-stop="995.938000">But the split lets his shoulders relax.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="996.038000" data-stop="999.404000">So probably you're getting the same, like, ha, my arms.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading"><span class="audio-time" data-start="1004.000000">16:44</span> <strong>Benefits of a split keyboard</strong></div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1004.195000" data-stop="1005.818000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  The two things that I first noticed</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1005.838000" data-stop="1008.243000">when I moved to a split keyboard was one, my</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1008.303000" data-stop="1010.968000">wrists started feeling a lot nicer and two, I was</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1011.008000" data-stop="1013.253000">immediately able to bench press like 20 pounds</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1013.293000" data-stop="1016.098000">more the next week.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1017.120000" data-stop="1019.225000">It was amazing how much of a difference it made</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1019.485000" data-stop="1020.988000">and it showed up in the data.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1021.998000" data-stop="1023.359000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Wow.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1023.620000" data-stop="1027.103000">There was a weightlifting talk at EmacsConf last year, I think.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1027.183000" data-stop="1029.606000">So there's a surprising overlap between the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1029.646000" data-stop="1031.406000">people who are checking their weightlifting stats</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1031.446000" data-stop="1033.368000">and the people who are into Emacs.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1033.388000" data-stop="1034.410000">Naturally, with Org Mode.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1034.510000" data-stop="1034.991000">There you go.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1036.873000" data-stop="1038.614000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Let's not look at those numbers too closely.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1038.634000" data-stop="1040.516000">I'm not too proud of a bunch of them.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1040.536000" data-stop="1043.118000">But yes, I find that Org capture templates let me</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1043.138000" data-stop="1044.740000">keep on top of that and not really think about</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1044.781000" data-stop="1046.722000">it, which is great because you don't want to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1046.742000" data-stop="1047.123000">think about it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1047.143000" data-stop="1049.445000">You want to gather the data and think about it</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1049.525000" data-stop="1051.347000">separately so that you can</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1051.462000" data-stop="1054.005000">stay emotionally divested from what the numbers mean.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1054.505000" data-stop="1054.846000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I know.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1055.046000" data-stop="1059.751000">I'm totally happy to dig into the Org capture,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1060.111000" data-stop="1062.233000">especially if you do any graphing.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1062.253000" data-stop="1065.116000">People always love graphing their progress, right?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1065.136000" data-stop="1067.379000">But if you're like, I don't really want to show</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1067.439000" data-stop="1069.481000">my numbers at the moment, that is also</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1069.541000" data-stop="1070.722000">understandable and okay.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1071.443000" data-stop="1072.344000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  I don't, I'm afraid. Sorry.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1072.384000" data-stop="1073.925000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  That's okay.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1073.985000" data-stop="1075.827000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  It took me a couple years to get</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1075.907000" data-stop="1078.630000">used to being on camera at all.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1078.650000" data-stop="1083.833000">I don't really like my appearance very much.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1083.834000" data-stop="1087.550000">I'm working on that, as you can see.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1087.551000" data-stop="1087.550000">I've had to work on that to be able to work remotely.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1087.551000" data-stop="1087.550000">It's a work in progress.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1087.551000" data-stop="1087.550000">I'm getting through it.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1087.551000" data-stop="1097.490000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  You know us. We're very much focused on text.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1097.550000" data-stop="1099.854000">In fact, you even use Emacs in the terminal.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1099.975000" data-stop="1101.718000">That's very text-y.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading"><span class="audio-time" data-start="1102.000000">18:22</span> <strong>Meeting workflow</strong></div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1102.053000" data-stop="1104.759000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong> One of the interesting things actually that I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1104.979000" data-stop="1107.264000">wanted to ask you about since you mentioned</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1107.304000" data-stop="1111.754000">meetings is you probably also have the role of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1111.794000" data-stop="1113.057000">designated note-taker.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1113.097000" data-stop="1115.361000">You mentioned in one of your toots that you take</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1115.442000" data-stop="1117.466000">notes and people are like, what are you doing that in?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1117.867000" data-stop="1118.949000">How are you taking your notes?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1119.591000" data-stop="1120.753000">And it's Emacs.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1121.240000" data-stop="1124.003000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Yes, so actually that's one of the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1124.023000" data-stop="1125.584000">things I should lead off with as an apology.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1126.385000" data-stop="1128.807000">I probably won't be able to share</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1128.847000" data-stop="1130.609000">many of my capture templates because I don't use</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1130.629000" data-stop="1132.211000">them in my personal life very much.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1133.172000" data-stop="1135.954000">They're mostly on my work machine. I've</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1135.974000" data-stop="1138.877000">got capture templates for impromptu meetings</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1139.858000" data-stop="1142.240000">where it's just like an exploratory, we have a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1142.280000" data-stop="1143.582000">problem we need to solve, we're kind of talking</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1143.602000" data-stop="1144.222000">through a discussion,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1144.683000" data-stop="1146.424000">a separate capture template for meetings with</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1146.445000" data-stop="1148.406000">agendas to make sure that we stay on them and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1148.426000" data-stop="1150.048000">that we log decisions,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1150.163000" data-stop="1154.988000">and a separate set of templates for... So I have</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1155.028000" data-stop="1156.990000">a team of direct reports and they each have</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1157.010000" data-stop="1159.333000">different cares and different topics that we're</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1159.353000" data-stop="1161.775000">working to develop in their professional careers.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1161.795000" data-stop="1163.677000">I find that it's really useful to be able to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1164.117000" data-stop="1166.100000">keep some continuity between our conversations.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1166.120000" data-stop="1167.721000">It also makes it very easy to export that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1167.781000" data-stop="1169.964000">entire dataset, share it with them to make sure</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1170.004000" data-stop="1171.805000">that they can consult it at the same time.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1171.825000" data-stop="1173.888000">If I got anything wrong, I can fold their</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1173.928000" data-stop="1175.409000">corrections in.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1175.429000" data-stop="1176.931000">But all of those templates, unfortunately, are on</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1176.971000" data-stop="1178.112000">my work machine.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1178.260000" data-stop="1181.143000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  We'll just sketch out the general</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1181.243000" data-stop="1185.608000">idea in abstract details and then people who want</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1185.628000" data-stop="1188.552000">to implement it for themselves can fill in the blanks.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1189.232000" data-stop="1191.135000">For example, when you're having a meeting with</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1191.215000" data-stop="1194.458000">your direct reports, are the tasks related to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1194.498000" data-stop="1196.040000">them in an Org agenda?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1196.160000" data-stop="1197.582000">Are you using dynamic blocks?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1198.123000" data-stop="1201.767000">Is it tracked somewhere else or is it in Org?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1201.867000" data-stop="1206.512000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  It's straight in Org mode.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1206.745000" data-stop="1209.871000">So most of the touch points that we have are more</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1209.931000" data-stop="1215.001000">about professional development and their cares</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1215.061000" data-stop="1217.186000">and concerns, rather than specific deliverables.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1217.807000" data-stop="1219.911000">Usually deliverables we manage at a team level.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1220.768000" data-stop="1223.854000">But if there are specific things that individuals</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1223.894000" data-stop="1227.660000">are working on, they will be in to-dos under</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1227.700000" data-stop="1229.624000">their subheadings in a way that show up on the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1229.664000" data-stop="1232.128000">agenda if we have assigned deadlines for them.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1232.509000" data-stop="1235.595000">But generally, if there's a deadline on a task,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1235.615000" data-stop="1237.478000">it's because</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1237.880000" data-stop="1240.044000">I'm doing something and they need to track it, or</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1240.225000" data-stop="1241.588000">they're doing something and I need to track it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1242.229000" data-stop="1244.594000">If I'm the only guy using Emacs, then Org</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1244.614000" data-stop="1245.696000">Mode won't work for that,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1245.716000" data-stop="1248.462000">so there aren't a lot of those.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1248.803000" data-stop="1250.226000">But if it's just something that I need to check</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1250.286000" data-stop="1251.889000">up on to make sure that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1253.422000" data-stop="1255.906000">something that... Like they've got planned leave for</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1255.966000" data-stop="1258.089000">example, or they have a cousin's wedding that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1258.109000" data-stop="1261.054000">they need to go off to, or something that I just</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1261.074000" data-stop="1262.996000">need to keep in my brain that's not necessarily</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1263.057000" data-stop="1265.140000">deliverable, then it would be</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1265.160000" data-stop="1266.942000">appropriate to keep that in a place where it'll</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1266.983000" data-stop="1267.964000">only show up on my agenda.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1268.465000" data-stop="1270.748000">So that's the kind of decision making that I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1270.768000" data-stop="1271.209000">apply there.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading"><span class="audio-time" data-start="1271.000000">21:11</span> <strong>Narrowing</strong></div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1271.710000" data-stop="1272.731000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  And you mentioned you have a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1272.791000" data-stop="1275.535000">subheading, I guess a subheading per person or</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1275.576000" data-stop="1278.520000">sort of... Or do you use tags to keep track</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1278.580000" data-stop="1280.543000">of something that might touch several people?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1281.063000" data-stop="1282.484000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Usually a section per person, and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1282.504000" data-stop="1284.046000">that's more of a convenience than anything else.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1284.867000" data-stop="1287.129000">That lets me narrow to just that subheading and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1287.169000" data-stop="1289.031000">share my screen during the meetings.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1289.051000" data-stop="1291.353000">Then I don't have to worry about accidentally</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1291.393000" data-stop="1292.935000">leaking anybody else's information into the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1292.955000" data-stop="1294.256000">screen share or anything like that.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1294.957000" data-stop="1298.720000">Obviously we let off with conversations about</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1298.740000" data-stop="1300.042000">them being all right with that.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1301.023000" data-stop="1306.348000">But the ability to very clearly and simply</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1306.408000" data-stop="1307.509000">delineate</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1307.489000" data-stop="1310.654000">"This domain of my notes pertains to this person"</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1311.275000" data-stop="1313.859000">and being able to be confident and share that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1313.899000" data-stop="1316.042000">confidence that there will be no leakage means</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1316.062000" data-stop="1318.626000">that we can explore topics and talk about them in</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1318.666000" data-stop="1322.391000">a way that might otherwise be a little bit more</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1322.451000" data-stop="1323.333000">restrictive.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1323.433000" data-stop="1326.457000">So being able to do that simply, and being able to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1326.518000" data-stop="1330.283000">establish a very clear delineation around whose</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1330.323000" data-stop="1332.186000">information belongs where and where it should be</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1332.226000" data-stop="1334.830000">shared turns out to be pretty valuable.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1335.130000" data-stop="1336.913000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Yeah, and that's a technique I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1336.953000" data-stop="1339.938000">think that especially people who are new to Emacs</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1339.978000" data-stop="1342.081000">and who aren't used to narrowing and widening</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1342.542000" data-stop="1344.746000">might not know how to use effectively.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1345.387000" data-stop="1347.631000">I think narrow is even one of the commands that's</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1347.731000" data-stop="1348.752000">disabled by default.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1348.773000" data-stop="1350.636000">You've got to say, yeah, you know, I'm not scared.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1350.656000" data-stop="1351.637000">I know what to do.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1352.378000" data-stop="1354.622000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Yeah, it's kind of bizarre to me</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1354.722000" data-stop="1356.345000">that it is, but yeah.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1356.528000" data-stop="1358.631000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I can imagine people accidentally</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1358.671000" data-stop="1360.574000">triggering it and they're like, oh no, the rest</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1360.614000" data-stop="1361.635000">of my file is missing.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1362.136000" data-stop="1363.978000">But if you know how to narrow to a region, and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1364.099000" data-stop="1367.624000">Org even has those commands to easily narrow to a subtree...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1368.345000" data-stop="1372.190000">I think it's even part of the default speed</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1372.230000" data-stop="1374.073000">command so you can trigger it right from a heading.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1374.653000" data-stop="1377.878000">But it's great for that kind of restriction.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading"><span class="audio-time" data-start="1378.000000">22:58</span> <strong>There's even an internal Slack channel about Emacs at Ben's company</strong></div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1378.718000" data-stop="1381.541000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong> Okay, so the reason why I was asking about that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1381.621000" data-stop="1384.084000">is because some people are working with people</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1384.124000" data-stop="1386.487000">who are not using Emacs, so it's very interesting</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1386.527000" data-stop="1390.050000">to see what the kinds of... It's very rare for</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1390.091000" data-stop="1391.692000">people to work with other people who actually</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1391.792000" data-stop="1394.255000">use... Are there any other Emacs people in your</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1394.315000" data-stop="1395.336000">company, for example?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1396.057000" data-stop="1398.480000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  There's an entire Emacs Slack topic</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1398.520000" data-stop="1399.521000">about that, yeah.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1399.821000" data-stop="1400.542000">It's kind of great.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1401.043000" data-stop="1403.906000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  What is that like to have co-workers who do Emacs?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1403.926000" data-stop="1406.008000">Because this is a rare experience.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1406.242000" data-stop="1407.143000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  It's super cool.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1408.305000" data-stop="1411.149000">It's also neat to see the very, very different</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1411.209000" data-stop="1412.651000">ways that people use it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1414.934000" data-stop="1418.939000">But yeah, oftentimes people will talk about</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1418.979000" data-stop="1420.782000">problems that they have with particular internal</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1420.802000" data-stop="1423.846000">tools, and somebody's like, oh yeah, go check out</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1423.886000" data-stop="1426.009000">this repo on GitLab that I published last week</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1426.069000" data-stop="1428.573000">where I got sick of it and decided to solve that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1428.613000" data-stop="1429.654000">problem categorically.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1431.256000" data-stop="1432.358000">It's actually super cool.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1432.418000" data-stop="1435.422000">And some of the folks at...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1435.638000" data-stop="1438.803000">Generally, I tried not to mention my current</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1438.863000" data-stop="1439.664000">employer at any point.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1440.125000" data-stop="1441.167000">Obviously, it's not secret.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1441.507000" data-stop="1442.709000">It's in the init file.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1442.769000" data-stop="1446.034000">But yeah, I don't tend to get into that deeply.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1446.074000" data-stop="1448.058000">But some of the other people who work at my</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1448.098000" data-stop="1453.466000">company, they maintain venerable Emacs packages.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1453.686000" data-stop="1455.850000">So it's awesome to be able to go and talk with</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1455.910000" data-stop="1457.292000">some of the folks who</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1457.542000" data-stop="1458.964000">I've been working on the code that I've been</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1459.004000" data-stop="1461.367000">using for a decade and we are now coworkers.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1461.387000" data-stop="1462.769000">It's lovely.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1463.530000" data-stop="1464.712000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Oh, that's so nice.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1465.213000" data-stop="1467.176000">I'm glad you have that kind of little community</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1467.236000" data-stop="1468.457000">in there.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1468.477000" data-stop="1473.705000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Yeah. Bunch of nerds.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1473.725000" data-stop="1476.989000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  So I suspect some people will be looking up your</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1477.029000" data-stop="1477.931000">company after this.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1477.951000" data-stop="1479.813000">I think it's also mentioned in LinkedIn and sort</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1479.833000" data-stop="1481.335000">of like, okay, let's see if there's any job</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1481.355000" data-stop="1481.536000">openings.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1481.556000" data-stop="1482.898000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  If it's mentioned on LinkedIn, that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1482.978000" data-stop="1483.979000">is somebody else.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1484.079000" data-stop="1486.503000">I haven't logged into LinkedIn in 15 years and I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1486.663000" data-stop="1490.339000">never will.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading"><span class="audio-time" data-start="1490.000000">24:50</span> <strong>Ben keeps Org capture templates as individual files and adapts them to different meeting flows</strong></div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1490.340000" data-stop="1491.823000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  We do have a question from Shae.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1491.843000" data-stop="1494.388000">Shae is asking, how do you make a capture</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1494.428000" data-stop="1497.415000">template to stay on agenda and record decisions?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1498.076000" data-stop="1499.178000">You got any tips for that?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1499.419000" data-stop="1504.309000">I'm guessing this is more of a human thing rather</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1504.350000" data-stop="1506.474000">than an Org thing, but maybe you have some ideas</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1507.015000" data-stop="1508.338000">on how you keep something on track.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1508.757000" data-stop="1510.300000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  So I'll actually push back on the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1510.320000" data-stop="1511.802000">"It's a human thing rather than an Org thing".</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1513.085000" data-stop="1516.711000">I strongly believe that one of the real values</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1516.751000" data-stop="1519.797000">of Org Mode is that it's a very plastic system.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1520.297000" data-stop="1522.261000">Fundamentally, I think that it is a human system</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1522.702000" data-stop="1524.725000">because it allows you to express exactly those</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1524.765000" data-stop="1528.572000">kinds of trade-offs in a really, really fluid way.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1529.378000" data-stop="1531.921000">I love the personal information management that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1532.021000" data-stop="1533.523000">Palm Pilots provided, for example,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1533.583000" data-stop="1534.624000">but it was pretty restrictive.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1534.724000" data-stop="1537.427000">One of the things that I love about Org Mode</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1537.888000" data-stop="1540.531000">is that if you find that a particular person has</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1540.771000" data-stop="1543.615000">a particular conversation style, it's really easy</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1543.775000" data-stop="1546.178000">to modify your Org Mode capture templates to be</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1546.218000" data-stop="1547.739000">able to capture that particular flow that you</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1547.800000" data-stop="1548.701000">have with that person.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1549.502000" data-stop="1552.385000">Or with a particular group of a recurring</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1552.425000" data-stop="1554.067000">meeting, for example, that tends to flow in a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1554.107000" data-stop="1555.048000">particular way.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1555.028000" data-stop="1557.935000">Super easy to update the templates that I use to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1557.995000" data-stop="1560.241000">capture those particular meetings to make it</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1560.361000" data-stop="1562.907000">easier to match the general conversation flow</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1563.008000" data-stop="1566.556000">with the notes that I will be taking about it.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1566.576000" data-stop="1567.438000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Wow, that sounds pretty</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1567.459000" data-stop="1568.481000">sophisticated.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1568.832000" data-stop="1570.394000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Well, I mean, that's the thing.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1570.414000" data-stop="1571.455000">It's not sophisticated.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1571.536000" data-stop="1577.483000">It tracks the human process very easily.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1577.503000" data-stop="1578.905000">So it's really lightweight.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1579.025000" data-stop="1581.048000">So you don't have to have a lot of sophistication</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1581.428000" data-stop="1583.471000">to make it very, very useful.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1583.511000" data-stop="1585.033000">You just have to have a feedback loop that you</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1585.053000" data-stop="1588.257000">can tune every time with one or two minutes of effort.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1588.538000" data-stop="1592.703000">And that's one of the reasons why I depend on</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1592.763000" data-stop="1594.926000">Magit mode so much is that it lets me track</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1594.946000" data-stop="1595.667000">those things.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1597.368000" data-stop="1599.480000">But yeah, to answer Shae's question about how do</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1599.560000" data-stop="1601.893000">I track those particular things.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1602.768000" data-stop="1607.394000">So if it's a meeting where one of my direct reports</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1607.395000" data-stop="1610.399000">has a particular set of topics that we</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1610.419000" data-stop="1611.861000">tend to investigate, like somebody who's</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1611.901000" data-stop="1613.163000">concentrated on career growth.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1613.223000" data-stop="1615.025000">So we're talking about the areas in which we want</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1615.045000" data-stop="1615.706000">to see development.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1616.367000" data-stop="1618.510000">I'll absolutely update the capture templates for</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1618.530000" data-stop="1620.313000">that particular person to say, all right, here's</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1620.333000" data-stop="1621.294000">what we talked about last time.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1621.835000" data-stop="1624.799000">Here are the things that were done between our</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1625.560000" data-stop="1628.224000">last two conversations about how we move in that direction.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1628.544000" data-stop="1631.188000">Were they successful or not?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1631.168000" data-stop="1632.630000">Did it require a lot of effort?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1632.690000" data-stop="1634.151000">So was it something that more effort should be</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1634.231000" data-stop="1637.374000">put into to be able to drive down the work over time,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1637.375000" data-stop="1638.917000">to be able to produce those results?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1639.317000" data-stop="1640.557000">But yeah, that goes into the templates</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1640.558000" data-stop="1643.962000">and that goes into the cadence of conversations that we</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1644.002000" data-stop="1645.304000">talked about in Capture.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1645.324000" data-stop="1646.265000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  So that's really interesting.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1646.285000" data-stop="1650.329000">You modify the capture templates with the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1650.429000" data-stop="1653.112000">notes that you want to have easily available the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1653.193000" data-stop="1654.454000">next time you chat with them.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1655.015000" data-stop="1658.138000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Exactly, yeah.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1658.708000" data-stop="1660.750000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  The capture templates are still defined as a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1660.810000" data-stop="1663.192000">setq somewhere in your thing, or are you</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1663.212000" data-stop="1664.954000">going into the customized interface?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1666.135000" data-stop="1667.316000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  So I actually keep the capture mode</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1667.336000" data-stop="1671.861000">templates as raw files that are referred to, and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1672.161000" data-stop="1673.803000">that makes it easier to version them in a way</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1673.863000" data-stop="1678.127000">that like, I mean, sure, like my Emacs init file,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1678.167000" data-stop="1679.969000">if you look at the Git history of it, it has a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1680.049000" data-stop="1680.889000">whole bunch of different...</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1686.502000" data-stop="1687.884000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I had not considered having capture</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1687.904000" data-stop="1689.166000">templates as files files.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1690.027000" data-stop="1690.948000">It worked out really well.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1691.329000" data-stop="1694.833000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  So you can see that... It's a little</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1694.853000" data-stop="1697.237000">bit hard to see with the font this small, but you</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1697.277000" data-stop="1702.604000">can see that I've got a lot of changes to, for</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1702.664000" data-stop="1710.535000">example, my init file, but keeping them in</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1710.953000" data-stop="1713.978000">individual capture mode template files makes it a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1714.018000" data-stop="1717.082000">little bit easier to just look at the history of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1717.103000" data-stop="1718.605000">that particular file and see why particular</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1718.625000" data-stop="1719.226000">changes were made.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1719.827000" data-stop="1720.968000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I'm going to try that.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1721.289000" data-stop="1723.332000">I think that's a great idea because it allows you</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1723.372000" data-stop="1725.616000">to be a lot more granular about the notes.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading"><span class="audio-time" data-start="1725.000000">28:45</span> <strong>Personal-scale software and the journey</strong></div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1725.936000" data-stop="1728.220000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong> I saw in that very brief flash of your change</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1728.280000" data-stop="1730.363000">log message that you like to write</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1730.444000" data-stop="1732.867000">Fairly detailed commit messages that talk about</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1733.068000" data-stop="1735.691000">why a change was made instead of just a new</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1735.732000" data-stop="1736.673000">function, new command.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1737.033000" data-stop="1739.938000">Very terse updates that I sometimes just try to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1739.958000" data-stop="1740.458000">get away with.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1740.879000" data-stop="1742.942000">Tell us more about that because I think you've</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1743.322000" data-stop="1746.327000">had a couple of toots about reading source code</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1746.387000" data-stop="1747.268000">and reading commits.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1748.650000" data-stop="1749.411000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Yeah.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1752.455000" data-stop="1754.258000">So I guess</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1755.588000" data-stop="1757.651000">One of the things that I most appreciate about</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1757.971000" data-stop="1760.054000">software in general, and specifically personal</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1760.094000" data-stop="1761.676000">software, like personal scale software that's</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1761.716000" data-stop="1765.421000">been written by an amount of people that you</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1765.441000" data-stop="1767.283000">could fit into a room to have a conversation</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1767.323000" data-stop="1767.583000">about it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1768.665000" data-stop="1770.167000">One of the things that I most appreciate about</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1770.187000" data-stop="1773.271000">that is that almost all software written that way</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1773.291000" data-stop="1777.035000">is fundamentally a diary about the way that a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1777.095000" data-stop="1779.258000">person learned how to solve a set of problems</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1779.278000" data-stop="1781.121000">that they might not have known about when they</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1781.161000" data-stop="1782.042000">decided to at the beginning.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1782.963000" data-stop="1785.426000">It's this fascinating process of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1785.743000" data-stop="1789.011000">Tracking somebody's voyage through the problem</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1789.071000" data-stop="1792.921000">landscape as they discover other people who have</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1793.963000" data-stop="1796.630000">touched on topics that are tangential to the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1796.650000" data-stop="1801.542000">problem being solved by that software package.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1802.129000" data-stop="1805.796000">It's such a personal and fascinating experience</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1805.896000" data-stop="1809.082000">to see somebody go from, I know just enough about</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1809.142000" data-stop="1810.625000">a problem to be able to decide that I want to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1810.825000" data-stop="1813.350000">build the machine that works on it, to I have</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1813.370000" data-stop="1815.474000">this deeper understanding of how the problem</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1815.594000" data-stop="1818.038000">actually exists in the broader set of things that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1818.058000" data-stop="1818.940000">people care about.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1820.202000" data-stop="1822.487000">...oriented along the axis of what machinery can</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1822.527000" data-stop="1825.012000">do to help solve parts of that problem.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1825.032000" data-stop="1829.061000">And like the commit logs for a program are like</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1829.101000" data-stop="1832.068000">just this, it's like a map through that territory.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1832.108000" data-stop="1834.633000">It's wonderful to read, but it's also like...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1836.048000" data-stop="1837.690000">It gives you a lot of insight into the person</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1837.730000" data-stop="1838.771000">doing the navigation.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1839.252000" data-stop="1842.596000">When you see 16 commits on December 24th of 2023,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1842.636000" data-stop="1845.940000">like, oh, okay, that person probably had a little</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1845.980000" data-stop="1846.721000">bit of time to work on it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1847.322000" data-stop="1849.044000">And then when you see a bunch of commits that are</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1849.084000" data-stop="1850.106000">like 5 p.m.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1850.166000" data-stop="1851.668000">Monday to Friday, like, oh, okay, this is</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1851.708000" data-stop="1854.331000">probably done in a particular way.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1854.391000" data-stop="1857.435000">But yeah, it's this deeply personal process of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1857.515000" data-stop="1859.497000">seeing how problems are learned about.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1860.839000" data-stop="1863.102000">And I just really appreciate that.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1864.347000" data-stop="1865.409000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I think what you're saying about</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1865.669000" data-stop="1868.614000">personal scale software and kind of getting a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1868.654000" data-stop="1871.619000">sense of people's journey as they learn to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1871.659000" data-stop="1874.063000">understand a problem and as they start to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1874.123000" data-stop="1876.326000">prototype a solution because you never quite come</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1876.366000" data-stop="1878.169000">across the right solution the first time around.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1878.690000" data-stop="1879.672000">You're figuring things out.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1879.712000" data-stop="1881.214000">You're borrowing things from other people.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1881.775000" data-stop="1884.139000">I think that will resonate a lot with lots of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1884.159000" data-stop="1886.523000">people in the Emacs community because Emacs use</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1886.583000" data-stop="1888.646000">is so personal as you mentioned when you were</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1888.686000" data-stop="1889.848000">looking at the Slack channel.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1891.533000" data-stop="1894.277000">I was wondering, in your personal practice, as</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1894.317000" data-stop="1896.380000">you figure things out, what kinds of things help</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1896.420000" data-stop="1896.580000">you?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1896.660000" data-stop="1899.684000">Is it mostly a matter of actually sitting down</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1899.704000" data-stop="1902.248000">and taking the time to write the literate</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1902.368000" data-stop="1905.773000">programming stuff around the code blocks or the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1905.793000" data-stop="1906.554000">commit messages?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1906.654000" data-stop="1908.877000">Or are there other tools or techniques that help</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1908.897000" data-stop="1909.558000">you do that?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1910.753000" data-stop="1913.636000">Are there tools or techniques that help me write</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1913.676000" data-stop="1916.619000">down your journey along the way as you think</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1916.659000" data-stop="1917.019000">about the code?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1917.039000" data-stop="1917.840000">What's your practice?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1917.920000" data-stop="1920.643000">For example, when you come across something that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1920.723000" data-stop="1923.126000">you want to figure out, how do you go about doing</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1923.226000" data-stop="1923.306000">it?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1924.848000" data-stop="1928.772000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  So it depends on how I'm</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1928.812000" data-stop="1929.592000">approaching the project.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1930.033000" data-stop="1932.135000">So one of the neat things about software is that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1932.155000" data-stop="1933.877000">it's a document and a device at the same time.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1934.077000" data-stop="1936.279000">So you can care about it because of the thing</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1936.299000" data-stop="1937.881000">that it does, or you can care about it because of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1938.341000" data-stop="1939.883000">the information that it captures.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1939.863000" data-stop="1942.748000">And if I'm digging into a program because it does</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1942.788000" data-stop="1945.132000">a thing that I want to learn, then I'll pay</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1945.172000" data-stop="1948.118000">attention to the device aspect of it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1948.138000" data-stop="1949.740000">And that usually means that I'll start with its</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1949.801000" data-stop="1950.622000">own documentation.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1950.642000" data-stop="1952.045000">So if it has a man page, I'll read that.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1952.065000" data-stop="1953.427000">If it has user docs, I'll read those.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1954.208000" data-stop="1957.414000">And usually I'll start keeping notes in an Org</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1957.434000" data-stop="1960.019000">Mode file because it's easy to hyperlink back to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1960.099000" data-stop="1963.485000">it and add my own annotations in parallel to the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1963.545000" data-stop="1964.807000">actual authoritative source.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1965.580000" data-stop="1969.425000">If I'm reading software primarily as a document,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1969.445000" data-stop="1971.888000">then I'll start by reading the source code and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1971.989000" data-stop="1974.512000">the commit logs, usually the most recent ones,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1974.812000" data-stop="1976.334000">and then I'll jump back to the beginning of the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1976.374000" data-stop="1978.417000">project and read upwards at the beginning, and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1978.457000" data-stop="1981.321000">then fill in the blanks iteratively if it's a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1981.381000" data-stop="1983.965000">project that's small enough or has little enough</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1984.005000" data-stop="1985.627000">history that I can do that.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1985.727000" data-stop="1988.391000">And again, I'll usually start an Org Mode file</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1988.431000" data-stop="1991.735000">specific to that particular exploration that will</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1992.516000" data-stop="1994.018000">let me organize my notes as I go.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="1995.061000" data-stop="2000.828000">I really do rely on the external brain that I can</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2000.909000" data-stop="2005.414000">keep in an Org Mode file.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2007.637000" data-stop="2012.043000">I tend to have a pretty decent long-term memory,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2012.063000" data-stop="2013.845000">but being able to bridge the gap between</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2014.586000" data-stop="2016.409000">short-term memory and long-term memory is super,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2016.429000" data-stop="2017.089000">super useful.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2017.109000" data-stop="2020.193000">So leaving myself hints that let me dredge things</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2020.294000" data-stop="2022.216000">back out of long-term.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2022.466000" data-stop="2024.589000">Reloaded into the hot cache of short term really,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2024.669000" data-stop="2028.395000">really helps out because that lets me maintain</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2028.435000" data-stop="2030.418000">that flow state or get back into that flow state</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2030.458000" data-stop="2033.583000">when you've got like the whole program, all the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2033.623000" data-stop="2036.127000">context that you've absorbed up until now and the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2036.227000" data-stop="2037.890000">ideas of like the areas that you want to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2037.950000" data-stop="2038.411000">investigate.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2038.811000" data-stop="2040.935000">Being able to hot reload all of that and then</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2040.975000" data-stop="2042.557000">pick up where I left off is super useful.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2043.659000" data-stop="2044.841000">But the meat brain can't do it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2045.362000" data-stop="2046.904000">I need the machine brain too.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading"><span class="audio-time" data-start="2047.000000">34:07</span> <strong>vc-git-grep for finding notes again</strong></div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2047.728000" data-stop="2049.592000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Tell me about this dredging up</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2049.632000" data-stop="2050.194000">process.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2050.455000" data-stop="2054.304000">Are you a lots of little files person?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2054.446000" data-stop="2057.514000">Are you a couple of large files?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2057.554000" data-stop="2058.616000">Are you a project file?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2058.956000" data-stop="2061.203000">There's an Org file in each project that you look</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2061.304000" data-stop="2061.685000">up.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2061.705000" data-stop="2063.168000">How do you find things, especially if you don't</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2063.268000" data-stop="2064.572000">remember the exact words?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2066.088000" data-stop="2069.610000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  So it's usually like an Org Mode</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2069.630000" data-stop="2074.054000">per category and they get consolidated.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2075.897000" data-stop="2077.739000">Let me shrink this down a little bit.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2077.759000" data-stop="2080.581000">So usually it's an Org Mode category per file.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2081.181000" data-stop="2085.465000">If there's something super specific, then usually</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2085.505000" data-stop="2088.869000">it'll kind of live out in its own place until I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2088.909000" data-stop="2092.312000">get around to... I love that you have an Org File</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2092.371000" data-stop="2093.833000">specifically for Mud Cake.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2094.757000" data-stop="2095.498000">But that's the thing.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2095.699000" data-stop="2097.964000">It'll live off in its own thing until it gets</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2098.064000" data-stop="2104.236000">integrated into the list where the long-term</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2104.276000" data-stop="2105.439000">stuff lives.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2105.459000" data-stop="2110.528000">So, for example, I promise this is pertinent to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2110.548000" data-stop="2111.250000">your actual question.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2111.651000" data-stop="2112.953000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  No, no, this is very pertinent.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2113.895000" data-stop="2116.898000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  But so like usually lots of little</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2116.958000" data-stop="2118.900000">files while I'm still working on something and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2118.980000" data-stop="2123.043000">then as that something becomes part of my larger</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2123.083000" data-stop="2124.645000">life and has links to other things then it'll</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2124.665000" data-stop="2127.287000">kind of get centralized into one of the Org Mode</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2127.307000" data-stop="2132.952000">files that has a broader topic purpose basically.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2132.972000" data-stop="2135.795000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Okay and then if you if it's like</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2135.855000" data-stop="2139.058000">very long term and you can't remember the exact</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2139.158000" data-stop="2141.500000">rates to find something how do you generally find</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2142.621000" data-stop="2143.362000">find your notes?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2147.459000" data-stop="2147.900000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  That way.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2148.461000" data-stop="2148.822000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  All right.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2149.222000" data-stop="2151.327000">You start graphing various keywords and try to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2151.367000" data-stop="2151.687000">find it.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2152.349000" data-stop="2152.649000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Yeah.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2153.030000" data-stop="2155.234000">So one of the things that I don't yet have turned</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2155.334000" data-stop="2157.238000">on, and actually you inspired me to look into</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2157.278000" data-stop="2161.707000">this, was so... Actually, do we have enough time?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2161.727000" data-stop="2161.987000">Yeah, okay.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2162.008000" data-stop="2163.811000">So I'm just looking at the clock.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2163.831000" data-stop="2165.514000">One of the things that I wanted to get into was</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2166.336000" data-stop="2168.861000">long-term searching and searchability.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2169.242000" data-stop="2169.923000">Yeah.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2169.903000" data-stop="2173.189000">So I use SQLite's indexing for a lot of things,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2173.970000" data-stop="2175.693000">and I really appreciate its Porter stemming</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2176.154000" data-stop="2179.500000">because it lets you search for stemmed words,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2179.961000" data-stop="2182.486000">which are kind of approximate matches, which is</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2182.586000" data-stop="2187.034000">useful, but less useful than vector databases.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2187.149000" data-stop="2190.296000">And you actually put a little bit of work into</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2191.178000" data-stop="2194.085000">indexing topics based on vector similarity.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2194.626000" data-stop="2195.869000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Which I haven't gotten back to, so</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2195.909000" data-stop="2197.613000">I'm glad to see, you know, you managed to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2197.653000" data-stop="2198.435000">experiment with it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2198.936000" data-stop="2199.798000">See what you come up with.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2200.460000" data-stop="2202.104000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  So I don't have anything to show</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2202.264000" data-stop="2204.088000">yet, except that it's an interesting topic</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2204.128000" data-stop="2205.732000">because...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2206.927000" data-stop="2209.230000">Because I'm word-oriented, I will often remember</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2209.270000" data-stop="2211.293000">individual keywords or I'll have enough patience</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2211.373000" data-stop="2213.756000">that I can sift through a list of potential</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2213.796000" data-stop="2215.178000">keywords as I'm grepping for stuff.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2215.979000" data-stop="2220.225000">And if I find that my first three or four</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2220.445000" data-stop="2222.187000">attempts at searching for a keyword don't find</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2222.228000" data-stop="2223.970000">the topic that I'm looking for, once I do</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2224.010000" data-stop="2225.732000">eventually dig up the topic, I will add those</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2225.792000" data-stop="2227.715000">keywords that I was searching for just so I can</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2227.755000" data-stop="2230.338000">find it next time, expecting that future me will</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2230.358000" data-stop="2233.002000">probably behave more or less like current me.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2234.298000" data-stop="2235.981000">But yeah, like being able to use a vector</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2236.001000" data-stop="2239.626000">database to search for headings that include</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2239.687000" data-stop="2241.990000">related topics instead of related words.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2242.872000" data-stop="2243.733000">I'd really like to get there.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2243.833000" data-stop="2244.694000">I'm not there yet.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2244.755000" data-stop="2246.517000">And I think that's going to be interesting and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2246.618000" data-stop="2246.898000">useful.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2247.579000" data-stop="2249.242000">I also think it's going to be challenging to kind</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2249.282000" data-stop="2251.345000">of represent Org modes.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2251.460000" data-stop="2256.871000">hierarchical structure to restrict the training</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2256.911000" data-stop="2259.136000">of particular vector sets to be able to find like</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2259.496000" data-stop="2261.921000">an increasingly or cast an increasingly wide net</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2262.242000" data-stop="2263.925000">for where I want the searches to run.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2264.547000" data-stop="2265.749000">So I don't know how that's going to be solved</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2265.789000" data-stop="2267.713000">yet, but I'm going to be looking into it.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading"><span class="audio-time" data-start="2267.000000">37:47</span> <strong>Keybindings and terminals; wezterm</strong></div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2267.997000" data-stop="2271.202000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Percopop has a question regarding</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2271.222000" data-stop="2272.283000">terminal Emacs.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2272.343000" data-stop="2274.507000">Do you need to change any of the keybindings to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2274.567000" data-stop="2277.010000">avoid clashes with the terminal?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2277.050000" data-stop="2279.113000">You know, some keybindings don't work on</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2279.154000" data-stop="2281.777000">terminals, or some terminals already have these</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2282.218000" data-stop="2283.159000">keybindings set.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2284.201000" data-stop="2287.506000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Yeah, so I have good news and bad</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2287.546000" data-stop="2287.846000">news there.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2288.287000" data-stop="2290.751000">The good news is that, so one of the terminals</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2290.771000" data-stop="2293.034000">that I'm using right now on most of my systems is</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2293.094000" data-stop="2295.017000">Westerm.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2295.723000" data-stop="2297.590000">It's really good.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2297.610000" data-stop="2299.657000">I started off with Alacrity and I kind of bounced</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2299.697000" data-stop="2302.367000">off that project because of some of the behavior</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2302.407000" data-stop="2303.210000">of the lead developers.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2303.592000" data-stop="2305.759000">I won't get too deep into it, but what I found is</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2305.800000" data-stop="2307.606000">that Westerm</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2308.598000" data-stop="2311.262000">It gives me very little friction that way.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2311.282000" data-stop="2313.946000">It doesn't have a lot of its own key bindings on</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2314.007000" data-stop="2315.970000">its own, and that's a relief.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2316.450000" data-stop="2318.594000">It means that I really don't have to... I don't</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2318.614000" data-stop="2321.679000">think I've had to put any time into customizing</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2321.719000" data-stop="2326.326000">Western to get out of the way of Emacs or Screen.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2326.346000" data-stop="2328.129000">And I should mention, I am running Emacs within</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2328.149000" data-stop="2329.611000">Screen.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2329.591000" data-stop="2331.034000">So that introduces another layer.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2331.495000" data-stop="2334.000000">Control-A-A, for example, is beginning of line</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2334.040000" data-stop="2337.647000">for me, even though Control-A itself is the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2337.667000" data-stop="2338.889000">default Emacs keybinding.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2339.270000" data-stop="2342.877000">But yeah, I think that I ended up choosing</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2342.897000" data-stop="2347.987000">terminal software specifically on that merit, so</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2348.027000" data-stop="2349.310000">that it doesn't get in the way.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2349.330000" data-stop="2350.973000">That's actually one of the things that Termux</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2351.233000" data-stop="2352.055000">is...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2352.237000" data-stop="2356.523000">The default Google keyboard keeps stealing key</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2356.543000" data-stop="2356.884000">bindings.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2358.346000" data-stop="2360.609000">It'll update and all of a sudden I can't use a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2360.650000" data-stop="2364.756000">particular alt key combination anymore because</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2365.316000" data-stop="2369.082000">now it invokes a Google keyboard shortcut for</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2370.544000" data-stop="2374.090000">pulling things out of the Android clipboard, for</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2374.150000" data-stop="2377.755000">example, which is really kind of annoying.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2377.735000" data-stop="2380.478000">But yeah, in terms of terminals on full-fledged</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2380.498000" data-stop="2383.682000">machines, I generally don't have that particular</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2383.722000" data-stop="2383.982000">problem.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2385.003000" data-stop="2390.289000">Except for... What was the name of it?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2390.509000" data-stop="2401.041000">It was... It was a zap-to on-the-screen package</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2401.722000" data-stop="2404.906000">that alphapapa wrote, I believe, that I...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2404.926000" data-stop="2405.987000">Actually, let me just look it up.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2411.823000" data-stop="2412.504000">Yeah, Avy.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2413.265000" data-stop="2413.566000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Oh yeah?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2414.287000" data-stop="2415.849000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  So I wanted to start picking this</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2415.909000" data-stop="2421.979000">up in 2021, and yeah, control colon doesn't work</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2422.139000" data-stop="2422.980000">in terminals.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2423.080000" data-stop="2428.068000">So the mode itself is fantastic, and when I'm</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2428.168000" data-stop="2431.012000">using it in a GUI Emacs, it's very useful, and I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2432.034000" data-stop="2433.977000">rarely use it now specifically because of that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2434.017000" data-stop="2435.299000">particular terminal problem.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2435.414000" data-stop="2437.076000">That is self-inflicted.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2437.096000" data-stop="2438.237000">That is not a problem with the package.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2438.257000" data-stop="2440.179000">That is a me problem.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2440.500000" data-stop="2445.085000">But yeah, I think this is the notable one that I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2445.125000" data-stop="2445.666000">bounced off of.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2446.286000" data-stop="2447.568000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Yeah, just trying to find the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2447.628000" data-stop="2449.931000">right, you know, a key binding that will pass.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2450.531000" data-stop="2452.433000">Because you can't get used to key binding in one</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2452.473000" data-stop="2454.276000">system and then not have it available in other</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2454.316000" data-stop="2454.716000">systems.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2454.736000" data-stop="2455.857000">It's just going to mess with your brain.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2456.438000" data-stop="2459.181000">So yeah, Ray points out, yeah, Google steals</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2459.221000" data-stop="2461.304000">Control Shift K, which he uses to kill tabs to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2461.324000" data-stop="2461.604000">the right.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2461.624000" data-stop="2462.285000">So it's like, oh.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2463.226000" data-stop="2464.307000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Infuriating.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2464.777000" data-stop="2465.418000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Yeah, yeah.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2465.438000" data-stop="2468.866000">And of course, none of the standard keyboards</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2468.926000" data-stop="2472.493000">have a super key on the thing, so you can't just</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2472.674000" data-stop="2474.898000">tack on another modifier that'll get through.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2474.938000" data-stop="2476.702000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  That's actually one of the reasons</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2476.722000" data-stop="2478.606000">that I picked up this particular keyboard is</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2478.887000" data-stop="2480.490000">Brian Carlson.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2480.858000" data-stop="2481.799000">Another Torontonian.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2482.020000" data-stop="2483.722000">He works on Git LFS and some other stuff.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2484.182000" data-stop="2485.965000">He was specifically looking for a keyboard that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2486.065000" data-stop="2488.208000">had a super key that he could remap.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2488.248000" data-stop="2491.793000">So four keys to the right of space, which this</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2491.913000" data-stop="2492.293000">one has.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2492.754000" data-stop="2495.357000">And because it's ZMK, it's remappable.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2495.738000" data-stop="2497.360000">I think this might be suitable for his purpose,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2497.380000" data-stop="2500.945000">except that he wants a QMK keyboard, specifically</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2500.985000" data-stop="2503.548000">because the development tools for QMK are</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2503.568000" data-stop="2506.032000">packaged in W, and that's a plus for him.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2506.052000" data-stop="2507.133000">Anyhow, yes, I agree.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2507.433000" data-stop="2509.376000">Like, not having a super and a hyper key on a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2509.396000" data-stop="2510.157000">keyboard</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2510.592000" data-stop="2513.362000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  feels like like one of your fingers</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2513.382000" data-stop="2518.078000">that are cramped up we need more modifiers well I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2518.098000" data-stop="2519.623000">mean you know pipe organ</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2524.531000" data-stop="2525.453000">Tell us about that.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2525.473000" data-stop="2526.194000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  What is this?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2526.234000" data-stop="2528.098000">Oh yeah, foot pedals.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2528.839000" data-stop="2531.805000">Yeah, and I actually do have these wired into a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2531.845000" data-stop="2536.034000">little Atmel microcontroller running QMK.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2536.555000" data-stop="2538.298000">I honestly tried the foot pedal thing for a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2538.338000" data-stop="2538.759000">little while.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2539.060000" data-stop="2540.663000">It was hilarious.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2540.683000" data-stop="2541.865000">I did not find it useful.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2544.157000" data-stop="2545.499000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I don't have the hand-eye-foot</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2545.519000" data-stop="2548.163000">coordination to do that thing at the same time.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2548.844000" data-stop="2550.226000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Maybe if I had learned piano as a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2550.246000" data-stop="2551.608000">kid, it would have been good.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2551.708000" data-stop="2553.611000">But yeah, I don't seem to be able to do it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2554.012000" data-stop="2558.759000">But I gave it the old college try and it was fun.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading"><span class="audio-time" data-start="2558.000000">42:38</span> <strong>Timers: tea-timer, tmr</strong></div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2558.779000" data-stop="2559.861000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Okay, I had a couple of things I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2560.061000" data-stop="2562.124000">wanted to ask about in your config.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2562.144000" data-stop="2563.606000">You have two types of timers.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2564.588000" data-stop="2566.992000">You have tea-timer and you have Prot's TMR.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2567.733000" data-stop="2569.315000">Do you use them for different purposes?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2569.656000" data-stop="2570.637000">What's going on here?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2570.870000" data-stop="2572.352000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  So I'm trying them out.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2572.492000" data-stop="2574.295000">I tried TTimer first because it was the first one</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2574.315000" data-stop="2576.137000">that I found, and it was useful.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2577.579000" data-stop="2579.883000">I was actually using it in meetings because I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2579.903000" data-stop="2582.026000">would, when I was trying to keep us on topic, I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2582.066000" data-stop="2584.069000">would use that to remind us that, oh, we've got</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2584.109000" data-stop="2585.270000">four other topics we need to get through.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2585.290000" data-stop="2586.552000">We're trying to give this one five minutes.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2586.632000" data-stop="2588.094000">We're running up on four.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2588.114000" data-stop="2591.539000">And it was just because it was super low overhead.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2591.579000" data-stop="2593.141000">It was easy to pick up.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2593.221000" data-stop="2594.563000">It was easy to have it displayed on my screen.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2594.944000" data-stop="2597.147000">And it didn't feel like I was...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2597.127000" data-stop="2598.693000">Running a chess timer on everyone.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2598.754000" data-stop="2600.420000">It's very subtle in the mode line.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2600.461000" data-stop="2601.826000">It was useful.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2601.846000" data-stop="2604.758000">But what I found was that when I was...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2606.999000" data-stop="2608.763000">Running multiple timers simultaneously.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2608.823000" data-stop="2612.069000">TMR, just the fact that you can list all the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2612.089000" data-stop="2614.073000">timers and manage them in a separate buffer.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2614.133000" data-stop="2617.340000">It's richer and I appreciated some of its</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2617.360000" data-stop="2618.121000">documentation more.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2618.582000" data-stop="2619.905000">I haven't fully switched over to it yet.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2620.286000" data-stop="2622.029000">I'm still in exploratory mode.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2622.049000" data-stop="2625.636000">In fact, this is probably like... So I actually</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2625.677000" data-stop="2628.061000">have a bunch more packages installed than I'm</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2628.121000" data-stop="2628.923000">currently using.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2631.333000" data-stop="2634.607000">So I'm going to shrink this down a little bit</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2634.667000" data-stop="2637.178000">just so that it doesn't line wrap.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading"><span class="audio-time" data-start="2637.000000">43:57</span> <strong>Different stages of package use</strong></div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2637.198000" data-stop="2641.697000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong> But yeah, so I've got, I think about 140 packages</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2642.943000" data-stop="2642.942000">locally cloned.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2642.943000" data-stop="2642.942000">I've got, as you can see in my init,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2642.943000" data-stop="2642.942000">about half of that actually installed.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2642.943000" data-stop="2652.900000">There are various phases. I've got a clone, but I don't</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2652.901000" data-stop="2656.200000">have it in my init. Or I have it in my init, but</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2656.201000" data-stop="2657.267000">there's another package that offers</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2657.268000" data-stop="2660.300000">similar functionality. Or I'm all-in on this particular</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2660.301000" data-stop="2662.067000">choice and I'm removing the other ones.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2664.000000" data-stop="2668.174000">It's a gradual kind of progression.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2668.154000" data-stop="2669.796000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Yeah, we're all auditioning</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2670.616000" data-stop="2673.859000">packages to see if they fit in our workflow and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2673.919000" data-stop="2674.540000">all that stuff.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2675.000000" data-stop="2676.902000">I was curious also about your elfeed things.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2677.923000" data-stop="2679.945000">You have a few things related to elfeed.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2679.965000" data-stop="2681.346000">Actually, do you want to talk about the thing you</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2681.386000" data-stop="2682.127000">just highlighted first?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2683.268000" data-stop="2684.249000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  No, we'll get back to it in a sec.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2684.930000" data-stop="2686.071000">I'm keeping an eye on the clock.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2686.391000" data-stop="2687.652000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  But yeah, elfeed.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading"><span class="audio-time" data-start="2687.000000">44:47</span> <strong>Elfeed</strong></div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2687.672000" data-stop="2689.134000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong> Yeah, you've got a couple of interesting things</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2689.214000" data-stop="2691.796000">in your elfeed setup, including picking a search</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2691.876000" data-stop="2695.039000">from a bookmark or other shortcuts like that.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2695.222000" data-stop="2697.746000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  So I have discovered in my</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2697.786000" data-stop="2699.629000">conversations with the new maintainers for elfeed</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2699.689000" data-stop="2706.239000">that my elfeed habits are very deviant.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2708.703000" data-stop="2714.853000">So let me actually start off by going through...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2723.842000" data-stop="2729.069000">You can see that like the top of my elfeed list is</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2729.269000" data-stop="2731.392000">kind of in one format and down at the bottom, the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2731.492000" data-stop="2734.797000">ones that are closer to present day are organized</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2734.817000" data-stop="2735.357000">in a different way.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2736.138000" data-stop="2737.060000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  You've got tags now.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2738.061000" data-stop="2740.744000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  So my feed list is, I mean, it</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2740.764000" data-stop="2742.447000">started in Google Reader.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2742.807000" data-stop="2744.289000">It's kind of been forward ported since then.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2746.312000" data-stop="2748.735000">It's long.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2751.584000" data-stop="2752.507000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I love the comments.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2755.417000" data-stop="2756.381000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  But one of the consequences of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2756.421000" data-stop="2757.826000">having a long feed list is that I have an</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2757.946000" data-stop="2761.037000">enormous elfeed database.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2761.439000" data-stop="2763.121000">And I use it for completely different purposes.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2764.002000" data-stop="2767.186000">So for example, I'm going to show off that little</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2769.068000" data-stop="2769.689000">default search.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2777.560000" data-stop="2780.833000">I keep an eye on projects that have releases</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2780.834000" data-stop="2783.124000">that aren't packaged by Debian, for example.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2783.224000" data-stop="2786.468000">So I've got this little ATS Mini.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2789.300000" data-stop="2792.925000">basically a small AM FM radio that happens to run</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2793.205000" data-stop="2796.409000">on ESP32 and the firmware for this community</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2796.649000" data-stop="2799.113000">developed and it's kind of interesting but like</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2799.133000" data-stop="2801.015000">that's not packaged by Debian so I pay attention</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2801.075000" data-stop="2803.358000">to or I subscribe to the release feed for that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2803.398000" data-stop="2805.020000">particular project.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2806.542000" data-stop="2809.626000">I do keep in keep an eye on the Linux kernel</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2809.666000" data-stop="2812.810000">especially these days because</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2813.397000" data-stop="2816.483000">The gallop of security vulnerabilities coming out</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2816.503000" data-stop="2818.346000">of mythos analyses right now means that I have to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2818.366000" data-stop="2820.711000">pay more attention than usual to fresh updates.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2821.192000" data-stop="2824.197000">So generally I run Debian stable, but I do run</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2824.237000" data-stop="2826.041000">kernels from backports and I want to know when</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2826.061000" data-stop="2827.744000">those are available.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2827.927000" data-stop="2829.108000">MeshTastic.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2829.129000" data-stop="2830.731000">I was paying more attention to this a couple of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2830.831000" data-stop="2831.431000">weeks ago.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2832.112000" data-stop="2832.993000">I'm not going to reach that right now.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2833.514000" data-stop="2836.778000">But yeah, the local MeshTastic community in</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2836.798000" data-stop="2839.501000">Toronto is plagued by a couple of griefers that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2839.742000" data-stop="2840.703000">make it a lot less fun.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2840.783000" data-stop="2842.365000">So I'm paying a bit less attention to that right</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2842.405000" data-stop="2842.525000">now.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2843.306000" data-stop="2845.189000">But yeah, so like one of the bookmarks that I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2845.249000" data-stop="2847.291000">have is software currency.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2847.311000" data-stop="2849.414000">Another one is, for example, the YouTube channels</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2849.434000" data-stop="2851.116000">that I subscribe to.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2851.096000" data-stop="2853.442000">Thank goodness for Elf YouTube.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2854.424000" data-stop="2857.432000">It is so nice to be able to get the transcripts</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2858.054000" data-stop="2859.898000">for things directly in there.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2861.462000" data-stop="2863.006000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  There's even a sponsor block</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2863.066000" data-stop="2866.114000">integration so you can skip all the promotions</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2866.134000" data-stop="2866.455000">and stuff.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2867.026000" data-stop="2870.430000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Yeah, I mean, so again, my use of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2870.811000" data-stop="2873.935000">YouTube is also deviant in that I pretty much</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2874.015000" data-stop="2876.838000">strictly subscribe to RSS feeds and they're</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2876.878000" data-stop="2878.501000">downloaded onto the file server.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2879.442000" data-stop="2881.544000">So when a new recording comes out, it gets</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2881.584000" data-stop="2882.005000">dropped there.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2882.105000" data-stop="2882.666000">I'll watch it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2883.527000" data-stop="2886.651000">And then I've got a little widget that scans</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2886.711000" data-stop="2888.693000">through my Kodi database for watched files.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2889.294000" data-stop="2891.477000">Once YouTube files show up in the watch list,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2891.497000" data-stop="2893.860000">they're automatically purged.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2893.840000" data-stop="2896.403000">And it means I just never see an ad.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2897.184000" data-stop="2901.109000">It's not just satisfying.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2901.169000" data-stop="2902.591000">I don't think that I would be able to pay</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2902.631000" data-stop="2904.533000">attention if I was being constantly interrupted</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2904.573000" data-stop="2905.655000">because of the way that my brain works.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2907.076000" data-stop="2911.121000">But yeah, so being able to quickly search for</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2911.141000" data-stop="2916.248000">YouTube is one thing.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2916.308000" data-stop="2918.110000">I do have...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2918.090000" data-stop="2920.434000">articles that I've marked as spoilers for media</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2920.454000" data-stop="2922.317000">that I haven't watched or read yet.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2923.880000" data-stop="2927.806000">Maybe I go to an extreme degree, but I'll try to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2927.846000" data-stop="2929.729000">avoid previews for new movies, for example.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2930.350000" data-stop="2933.015000">But I do want to actually go back to them later</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2933.135000" data-stop="2935.018000">on.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2935.690000" data-stop="2938.353000">Marking articles as having spoilers that I want</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2938.373000" data-stop="2942.338000">to revisit later on is an easy way of not having</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2942.358000" data-stop="2943.199000">to worry about it anymore.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2943.660000" data-stop="2947.064000">And for a while, back in the days when I was</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2947.364000" data-stop="2952.991000">paying more attention to... Enter the Dragon was</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2953.051000" data-stop="2957.597000">the sequel to... What was that TV show?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2959.062000" data-stop="2960.187000">The George R.R.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2960.207000" data-stop="2963.883000">Martin seven seasons and it went badly off the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2963.924000" data-stop="2964.868000">rails in season six.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2964.888000" data-stop="2965.832000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Game of Thrones.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2965.913000" data-stop="2966.935000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Thank you.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2966.955000" data-stop="2969.118000">So when I was watching that for a while, several</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2969.138000" data-stop="2971.441000">of the sites that I was reading would have</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2971.762000" data-stop="2973.945000">individual episode updates.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2974.326000" data-stop="2977.170000">And I really appreciated having a list of Elfie</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2977.250000" data-stop="2979.293000">keywords that I could automatically apply those</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2979.334000" data-stop="2979.834000">tags to.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2980.315000" data-stop="2982.178000">So I wouldn't even see the headlines because it</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2982.198000" data-stop="2984.181000">was problematic enough.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2984.201000" data-stop="2986.785000">I've become less... Nice.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2986.805000" data-stop="2988.227000">Yeah, I've been putting less effort into</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2988.267000" data-stop="2991.412000">maintaining that now, but the infrastructure is</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2991.432000" data-stop="2993.355000">still there and I can lean on it if I need to.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2993.605000" data-stop="2995.507000">One of the things that I don't have set up right</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="2995.547000" data-stop="3003.255000">now is a quick search for the municipal topics</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3003.275000" data-stop="3003.775000">that I cover.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3004.836000" data-stop="3009.401000">So I tend to subscribe to a lot of news because I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3009.461000" data-stop="3014.526000">found that, for example, it's interesting to see</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3014.666000" data-stop="3016.588000">how the Toronto Star covers stuff differently</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3016.688000" data-stop="3017.910000">from other local newspapers.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3018.650000" data-stop="3023.275000">And it's useful to be able to quickly pull up</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3024.335000" data-stop="3028.361000">You know, the five or six publications that cover</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3028.761000" data-stop="3031.686000">news in the same way and then look through the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3031.706000" data-stop="3033.689000">annotations for them or add the annotations</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3033.909000" data-stop="3036.072000">myself so I can see that this particular story</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3036.112000" data-stop="3038.355000">was covered by this journalist in this</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3038.395000" data-stop="3041.019000">publication in this way and then it lets me</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3041.059000" data-stop="3043.643000">cross-reference so that I can pay attention to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3045.648000" data-stop="3049.298000">Topics that are under-covered or publications</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3049.398000" data-stop="3052.526000">that habitually leave out particular aspects of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3052.587000" data-stop="3053.048000">news stories.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3054.732000" data-stop="3058.763000">It lets me pay more attention to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3060.380000" data-stop="3062.603000">The trends of publications as well as to the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3062.643000" data-stop="3063.444000">stories that they're covering.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3064.585000" data-stop="3067.168000">But the consequence of that is that my LFE</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3067.208000" data-stop="3069.210000">database is like four and a half gigs.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3069.691000" data-stop="3072.074000">And it's common for me, actually, I don't know if</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3072.094000" data-stop="3072.795000">that actually shows.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3073.335000" data-stop="3075.878000">It's common for me to have like 65,000 articles</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3077.140000" data-stop="3079.222000">in like the six month horizon for the default LFE</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3079.242000" data-stop="3079.643000">searches.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3080.584000" data-stop="3083.227000">And that means that searches and redraws are</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3083.287000" data-stop="3085.570000">expensive, even on a relatively performant</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3085.630000" data-stop="3086.691000">machine.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3086.671000" data-stop="3089.496000">So you've probably seen some of the workarounds</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3089.516000" data-stop="3090.037000">that I've got.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3090.257000" data-stop="3094.705000">And this little bookmark selector is one of those</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3094.745000" data-stop="3095.205000">workarounds.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3095.686000" data-stop="3098.391000">So L feeds interactive search, super, super</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3098.411000" data-stop="3098.711000">useful.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3099.292000" data-stop="3101.456000">But if you're trying to do it like this,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3101.877000" data-stop="3105.162000">actually, it's not so bad.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3109.109000" data-stop="3109.570000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I love this.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3109.590000" data-stop="3111.413000">This is like, yeah.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3111.950000" data-stop="3114.793000">When you see someone using elfeed for like 65,000</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3114.873000" data-stop="3119.037000">items, you get a sense of what you can be used</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3119.077000" data-stop="3121.319000">for when you're really stressing it.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3122.040000" data-stop="3122.720000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Yeah.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3122.740000" data-stop="3124.942000">Well, and the organization of the bookmarks that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3124.982000" data-stop="3128.766000">I have means that I do have like one just river</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3128.826000" data-stop="3130.427000">of news of all of the things that I want to pay</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3130.468000" data-stop="3130.968000">attention to.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3131.388000" data-stop="3134.011000">But like it's seven or eight like pretty</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3134.611000" data-stop="3137.314000">divergent topics with not a lot of overlap.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3137.374000" data-stop="3139.476000">So it's neat to be able to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3139.456000" data-stop="3142.321000">Think of elfeed as the thing where news</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3142.461000" data-stop="3144.625000">information comes in, but the individual</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3144.665000" data-stop="3147.009000">bookmarks are the topics that are grouped</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3147.049000" data-stop="3149.694000">together that I actually care about and want to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3149.734000" data-stop="3151.196000">read about in concert with each other.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3156.085000" data-stop="3161.434000">If I specifically narrow it down to just Emacs</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3161.454000" data-stop="3164.940000">stuff, one of the things that I can easily do is</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3167.620000" data-stop="3170.046000">I had a bookmark for that search and if I name it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3174.377000" data-stop="3180.051000">So now that I've got that bookmark saved.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3183.420000" data-stop="3184.482000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  And then it's like bookmark</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3184.562000" data-stop="3185.224000">annotation.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3186.537000" data-stop="3189.521000">right and like this is also it ends up in my dot</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3189.541000" data-stop="3192.705000">file so as a git config as a as a git commit but</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading"><span class="audio-time" data-start="3193.000000">53:13</span> <strong>Bookmark naming conventions</strong></div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3193.206000" data-stop="3195.168000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong> now that that bookmark exists simply because of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3195.188000" data-stop="3198.953000">the naming uh lfe search now it shows up in</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3198.993000" data-stop="3201.837000">completion precisely this sort of stuff I I am</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3202.057000" data-stop="3204.680000">under utilizing bookmarks I think but I like that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3204.881000" data-stop="3207.905000">I love this idea of using bookmarks with a naming</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3207.945000" data-stop="3210.168000">convention and then writing Emacs list but take</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3210.208000" data-stop="3212.290000">advantage of that naming convention to make that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3212.811000" data-stop="3215.194000">easy to jump to easy to use in other things</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3215.748000" data-stop="3216.931000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Yeah, it means I don't really have,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3217.012000" data-stop="3218.616000">like, when I notice that there's a thing, I don't</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3218.677000" data-stop="3221.525000">have, it diminishes the activation energy for</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3221.625000" data-stop="3223.049000">building a new workflow.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3223.069000" data-stop="3224.152000">It means that I don't have to put a lot of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3224.172000" data-stop="3224.654000">thought into it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3224.754000" data-stop="3226.038000">I can quickly do it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3226.118000" data-stop="3227.442000">And if it turns out to not be useful, I can</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3227.482000" data-stop="3228.846000">quickly get rid of it.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3230.125000" data-stop="3230.646000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Very cool.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading"><span class="audio-time" data-start="3230.000000">53:50</span> <strong>elfeed-curate for annotations</strong></div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3230.986000" data-stop="3232.609000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong> I had one more thing that I wanted to ask you</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3232.629000" data-stop="3234.692000">about elfeed that I want to squeeze in in the five</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3234.732000" data-stop="3236.234000">minutes that I have before the kiddo comes out</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3236.254000" data-stop="3237.315000">for lunch break.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3237.395000" data-stop="3240.560000">This elfeed curate that you're using, this is the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3240.580000" data-stop="3242.082000">first time I've come across it in the config.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3242.843000" data-stop="3245.667000">Are you sharing your notes or your selections</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3245.788000" data-stop="3247.871000">with other people or just for yourself?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3247.891000" data-stop="3248.031000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  No.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3248.592000" data-stop="3250.254000">So it's just for myself sometimes.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3250.294000" data-stop="3252.497000">So what I'm trying to replicate is back in Google</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3252.517000" data-stop="3254.841000">Reader days, I really appreciated how when you</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3255.001000" data-stop="3257.284000">added an annotation to an article that you were</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3257.324000" data-stop="3257.905000">reading,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3257.885000" data-stop="3261.172000">By default, that annotation would be viewable by</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3261.593000" data-stop="3262.655000">other people in your social graph.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3262.715000" data-stop="3263.637000">That was super interesting.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3266.664000" data-stop="3269.329000">Sometimes you could also add personal-only</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3269.389000" data-stop="3270.692000">annotations.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3271.093000" data-stop="3275.562000">Actually, I don't think that's the keyword that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3275.602000" data-stop="3276.685000">it uses.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3276.705000" data-stop="3277.767000">I think it's just an.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3279.248000" data-stop="3280.710000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Also, because you have an Emacs</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3280.770000" data-stop="3282.553000">keyword on it, so I don't know whether you have</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3282.653000" data-stop="3285.257000">any annotated Emacs ones.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3285.277000" data-stop="3285.377000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Yeah.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3285.397000" data-stop="3288.061000">Well, I mean, generally, if I've added an</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3288.101000" data-stop="3289.743000">annotation, it will be.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3289.763000" data-stop="3293.108000">So, for example, here.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3295.591000" data-stop="3295.772000">Right?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3296.433000" data-stop="3297.013000">Super useful.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3297.835000" data-stop="3298.976000">Well, super useful for me, anyhow.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3299.537000" data-stop="3301.860000">If I find that there's an annotation that is</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3302.461000" data-stop="3303.703000">more...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3311.024000" data-stop="3314.589000">This is inflammatory.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3314.609000" data-stop="3315.971000">It doesn't need to go out on the web.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3316.171000" data-stop="3317.693000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Sorry, you need to kill the stream</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3317.713000" data-stop="3319.435000">and have a 10-second video.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3319.455000" data-stop="3320.196000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  No, it's all good.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3321.899000" data-stop="3324.362000">I'm not worried about sharing this, but it's not</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3324.402000" data-stop="3325.123000">something I've posted.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3325.223000" data-stop="3326.845000">But what the nice thing is is that if it is</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3326.885000" data-stop="3328.487000">something that I want to share, it's really,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3328.507000" data-stop="3330.450000">really easy to just drop this into master.mode.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3330.751000" data-stop="3331.773000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Yeah, yeah.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3331.793000" data-stop="3332.595000">Huh.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3332.615000" data-stop="3333.577000">Very cool.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3335.882000" data-stop="3336.724000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Yeah, so that's one of the ways</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3336.744000" data-stop="3337.165000">that I use it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3337.345000" data-stop="3339.489000">And because the annotations are just Org Mode</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3339.590000" data-stop="3341.915000">files, you can add links to other things and it</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3341.955000" data-stop="3343.298000">becomes just as useful as anything else.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading"><span class="audio-time" data-start="3346.000000">55:46</span> <strong>mytoots archives Mastodon toots</strong></div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3346.164000" data-stop="3348.488000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  And you're saying this can flow</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3348.529000" data-stop="3351.595000">into Mastodon and from there, once you toot it,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3351.946000" data-stop="3354.571000">I think you're using, like, this is mytoots thing</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3354.591000" data-stop="3356.093000">that you mentioned in your config also for</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3356.194000" data-stop="3356.875000">archiving it?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3357.716000" data-stop="3358.778000">Or searching, yeah, okay.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3359.460000" data-stop="3360.642000">Oh, except it's currently not working.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3361.243000" data-stop="3362.164000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Yeah, I don't have it loaded right</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3362.204000" data-stop="3362.325000">now.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3362.525000" data-stop="3367.815000">But yeah, so mytoots, it just loads the backup of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3369.097000" data-stop="3372.523000">your export archive.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3373.124000" data-stop="3374.747000">So it loads the...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3376.600000" data-stop="3377.722000">What's the most recent one?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3377.742000" data-stop="3380.889000">So yeah, it was your Outbox JSON file, which is</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3381.570000" data-stop="3382.492000">the most recent one here.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3382.612000" data-stop="3384.276000">So I've got an Org Mode reminder to download it</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3384.536000" data-stop="3385.258000">roughly quarterly.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3386.059000" data-stop="3388.545000">My Outbox is about 100 megs right now.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3389.186000" data-stop="3392.613000">And compared to, well, I mean, it's compared to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3392.633000" data-stop="3394.597000">4.5 gigs for elfeed.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3395.118000" data-stop="3395.719000">It's not so big.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3396.641000" data-stop="3397.984000">I think...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3397.964000" data-stop="3399.446000">Oh yeah, that's not going to redraw properly.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3399.706000" data-stop="3401.529000">I was just going to show it like my resident</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3401.669000" data-stop="3404.232000">Emacs memory size right now is about like five or</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3404.273000" data-stop="3404.753000">six gigs.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3404.793000" data-stop="3406.215000">It's a little bit embarrassing.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3406.235000" data-stop="3408.478000">By comparison, 100 megs of JSON and RAM is not so</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3408.518000" data-stop="3410.361000">bad, but like having an instant search for</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3410.421000" data-stop="3413.124000">everything that you posted and being able to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3413.205000" data-stop="3414.907000">bounce back from your local archive to the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3414.967000" data-stop="3416.869000">conversation thread that's live and see anything</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3416.890000" data-stop="3417.651000">new that comes in.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3418.271000" data-stop="3420.434000">Again, it lets me exercise that outboard brain</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3421.175000" data-stop="3421.676000">kind of idea.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3422.858000" data-stop="3424.680000">So yeah, my toot's super useful.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading"><span class="audio-time" data-start="3425.000000">57:05</span> <strong>Mentoring offer</strong></div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3425.065000" data-stop="3425.726000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I like it a lot.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3426.247000" data-stop="3428.029000">And then the last thing that I want to ask</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3428.249000" data-stop="3429.771000">before, again, kiddo, because I have like two</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3429.791000" data-stop="3431.514000">minutes, is that you have a mentoring offer</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3431.594000" data-stop="3433.716000">pinned in your Mastodon, too.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3434.578000" data-stop="3436.620000">Have people taken you up on it, especially if</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3436.640000" data-stop="3438.222000">they've taken you up on Emacs?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3439.084000" data-stop="3441.627000">Is that ongoing or forgotten about or whatever?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3442.288000" data-stop="3442.909000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Not forgotten about.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3443.009000" data-stop="3444.050000">Very much real.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3444.531000" data-stop="3445.372000">Still open.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3445.392000" data-stop="3447.995000">I haven't refreshed that offer recently, but it's</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3448.015000" data-stop="3448.736000">still pinned for a reason.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3449.457000" data-stop="3451.941000">Yeah, I think maybe a dozen or so folks have</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3452.221000" data-stop="3453.823000">asked for that.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3454.816000" data-stop="3457.223000">9 or 10 success stories, I think.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3457.283000" data-stop="3460.252000">Nobody's asked for Emacs tutorialship yet.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3461.515000" data-stop="3462.578000">That's fine.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3462.598000" data-stop="3463.621000">Again, I love Emacs.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3463.641000" data-stop="3463.982000">I use it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3464.042000" data-stop="3465.105000">I don't often recommend it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3466.429000" data-stop="3468.274000">But if anybody was curious about that, I would be</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3468.315000" data-stop="3469.197000">very open to the idea.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3469.531000" data-stop="3471.757000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  All right, so if people want to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3471.857000" data-stop="3475.787000">also develop a very interesting elfeed setup,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3475.847000" data-stop="3476.790000">they know who to talk to.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3478.374000" data-stop="3479.176000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Please, I would love that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3479.196000" data-stop="3479.697000">conversation.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3480.198000" data-stop="3481.221000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Thank you so much.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3481.241000" data-stop="3481.983000">Yes, go ahead.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading"><span class="audio-time" data-start="3482.000000">58:02</span> <strong>A local instance of public-inbox can let you use Gnus to read mailing lists quickly</strong></div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3482.003000" data-stop="3483.306000"><strong class="speaker-name">Ben:</strong>  Oh yeah, there's just one last</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3483.326000" data-stop="3485.011000">thing I want to mention, and I realize we're</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3485.051000" data-stop="3485.953000">right up against time.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3485.933000" data-stop="3492.122000">I use GNU for email, but I use GNU for reading</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3492.162000" data-stop="3492.703000">mailing lists.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3493.544000" data-stop="3497.249000">I just wanted to just strongly recommend to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3497.429000" data-stop="3499.793000">anybody who is thinking about it, this is amazing.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3500.354000" data-stop="3501.475000">You gotta do this.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3501.555000" data-stop="3503.939000">Public inbox lets you keep a complete local</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3503.999000" data-stop="3505.361000">archive of the entire mailing list.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3505.901000" data-stop="3506.743000">Searches are instant.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3507.784000" data-stop="3509.046000">Tracking threads is instant.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3510.067000" data-stop="3510.488000">Check it out.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Ben" data-start="3510.869000" data-stop="3511.890000">It's fantastic.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3512.174000" data-stop="3513.396000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  That's great because like Emacs</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3513.436000" data-stop="3515.719000">develops like gazillion threads and how do you</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3515.760000" data-stop="3517.362000">even keep track of all this stuff but if you've</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3517.422000" data-stop="3520.747000">got news and you and if you've got this set up</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3520.787000" data-stop="3522.750000">then you're no longer dependent on the good</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3522.770000" data-stop="3526.516000">graces of Gmail being around as a kind of NNTP to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3526.536000" data-stop="3530.983000">mailing list gateway so uh so yeah uh John wants</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3531.023000" data-stop="3533.006000">to know if you have YouTube like if you have a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3533.066000" data-stop="3536.011000">YouTube channel I'm guessing you don't yet but uh</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3536.492000" data-stop="3538.755000">again I don't really like my face very much</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3538.837000" data-stop="3542.603000">Ping Ben on Mastodon and ask about this mentoring</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3542.643000" data-stop="3544.285000">thing and then share your notes so we can all</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3544.305000" data-stop="3544.786000">learn from it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3544.946000" data-stop="3546.369000">Thank you so much for today.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3546.969000" data-stop="3550.835000">I look forward to chatting with you more through</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3550.855000" data-stop="3551.156000">toots.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3551.516000" data-stop="3555.282000">What is the verb, you know, in the 30-verse?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3556.905000" data-stop="3557.265000">All right.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3557.626000" data-stop="3558.367000">Thank you so much.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3558.828000" data-stop="3559.168000">All right.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3559.208000" data-stop="3559.529000">Bye.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3563.635000" data-stop="3564.476000">Okay, folks.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3564.496000" data-stop="3565.298000">I'll end the stream too.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3565.758000" data-stop="3566.099000">Bye.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3566.119000" data-stop="3566.920000">Thanks for hanging out.</span></div>
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<div id="outline-container-emacs-chats-emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin-gnomon-mastodon-social-chat" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="emacs-chats-emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin-gnomon-mastodon-social-chat"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#emacs-chats-emacs-chat-25-ben-zanin-gnomon-mastodon-social-chat">Chat</a></h3>
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<ul class="org-ul">
<li><span class="nick">sachactube:</span> ​​only slightly panicking behind the scenes 🙂 Nudged Ben by Mastodon in case we got our wires crossed</li>
<li><span class="nick">sachactube:</span> ​​yay, he's here, just getting sound sorted</li>
<li><span class="nick">symbiopoyesis:</span> Good morning</li>
<li><span class="nick">x_goose_x:</span> ​​hey gnomonnnnnn</li>
<li><span class="nick">CharlieBaker707:</span> ​yay! love the split keyboard. recently bought one myself. i was getting shoulder and neck pain from so many hours keeping by hands close together, but the split let's my shoulder's relax.</li>
<li><span class="nick">ShaeErisson:</span> ​How do you make a capture template to stay on-agenda and record decisions? Any tips?</li>
<li><span class="nick">PuercoPop:</span> ​​Regarding terminal emacs, did they need to adapt any keybindings to avoid clashses with the terminal keybindings?</li>
<li><span class="nick">AyanRaza-n1x:</span> ​​is that the creator of emacs?</li>
<li><span class="nick">Ray-On-Emacs:</span> ​Yes! Google steals C-S-k, which I use to kill tabs to the right on Vivaldi!</li>
<li><span class="nick">CharlieBaker707:</span> ​elfeed is like a distraction alleviation machine. I agree with Ben, I don't think I could consume any of this information outside of Emacs. Ads and even varying formats distract me too much.</li>
<li><span class="nick">JonKishore11:</span> ​​do he have YT</li>
<li><span class="nick">sachactube:</span> ​​Thanks for hanging out, everyone! =)</li>
<li><span class="nick">gnomon027:</span> Thanks so much for running this whole series, @sachactube !!</li>
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</div>
<div><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/june-4-emacs-chat-with-ben-zanin-gnomon-mastodon-social/index.org">View Org source for this post</a></div>
<p>You can <a href="mailto:sacha@sachachua.com?subject=Comment%20on%20https%3A%2F%2Fsachachua.com%2Fblog%2F2026%2F06%2Fjune-4-emacs-chat-with-ben-zanin-gnomon-mastodon-social%2F&body=Name%20you%20want%20to%20be%20credited%20by%20(if%20any)%3A%20%0AMessage%3A%20%0ACan%20I%20share%20your%20comment%20so%20other%20people%20can%20learn%20from%20it%3F%20Yes%2FNo%0A">e-mail me at sacha@sachachua.com</a>.</p>]]></description>
		</item><item>
		<title>La semaine du 25 au 31 mai</title>
		<link>https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai/</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sacha Chua]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2026 17:42:19 GMT</pubDate>
    <category>french</category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<div class="sticky-toc" id="org88aa129">
<div id="text-table-of-contents" role="doc-toc">
<ul>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-lundi-25">lundi 25</a></li>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-mardi-26">mardi 26</a></li>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-mercredi-27">mercredi 27</a></li>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-jeudi-28">jeudi 28</a></li>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-vendredi-29">vendredi 29</a></li>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-samedi-30">samedi 30</a></li>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-dimanche-31">dimanche 31</a></li>
</ul>
</div>

</div>
<div id="outline-container-entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-lundi-25" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-lundi-25"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-lundi-25">lundi 25</a></h3>
<div class="outline-text-3" id="text-entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-lundi-25">
<p>
Ma fille était un peu triste parce que j'avais mangé mon petit-déjeuner avant qu'elle ne se réveille. Elle m'a demandé si je pouvais l'attendre pour que nous puissions manger ensemble.
</p>

<p>
J'ai emmené ma fille chez l'oculariste pour polir sa prothèse oculaire. Après le rendez-vous, elle a voulu rentrer au lieu d'aller chez College Optical pour commander des lunettes de soleil correctrices.
</p>

<p>
Pour le déjeuner et en guise de récompense pour le rendez-vous chez l'oculariste, nous avons mangé des nouilles instantanées. Ma fille m'a donné l'autre moitié de son sachet d'épices aux fruits de mer. Nous les avons enrichies avec du gâteau au poisson et aux algues. Elle a découvert qu'elle n'aimait pas le mochi à la crème glacée, donc elle a eu de la crème glacée à la place.
</p>

<p>
Après l'école, elle n'a pas voulu aller au cours de gymnastique parce qu'elle était un peu fatiguée. Au lieu de cela, nous sommes allées au parc pour jouer avec une balle, une corde à sauter, un grand dé en mousse, et la pataugeoire là-bas.
</p>

<p>
Pour le dîner, ma fille a voulu du sushi au crabe comme au restaurant que nous avons essayé vendredi.
</p>

<p>
Mon mari, ma fille et moi avons joué au Scrabble. Maintenant ma fille peut trouver ses propres mots avec quelques indices. Nous avons joué juste pour le plaisir, donc nous n'avions pas compté les points. Pour notre premier jeu, elle a voulu échanger des tuiles avec mon mari et moi, donc nous le lui avons permis. Pour notre deuxième jeu, mon mari a dû aller faire autre chose, donc elle et moi avons joué. Elle a voulu inclure les noms Pokémon, donc nous nous sommes amusées en plaçant les mots comme « Ekans », « Abo » et « Jolteon » (l'anglais et le français sont également permis) même si les mots anglais normaux sont aussi possibles.
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="outline-container-entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-mardi-26" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-mardi-26"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-mardi-26">mardi 26</a></h3>
<div class="outline-text-3" id="text-entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-mardi-26">
<p>
J'ai terminé la transcription de ma conversation avec Matei qui est anthropologue. Je la lui ai envoyée pour relecture avant de la publier.
</p>

<p>
Un des chats de notre voisinage m'a rendu visite, donc je lui ai donné un bol d'eau.
</p>

<p>
Ma fille et moi sommes allées au parc pour jouer seules. Nous avons joué avec la balle et à la pataugeoire.
</p>

<p>
J'ai appris que la prononciation du verbe « interviewer » en français a deux sons « v ». C'était intrigant.
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="outline-container-entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-mercredi-27" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-mercredi-27"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-mercredi-27">mercredi 27</a></h3>
<div class="outline-text-3" id="text-entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-mercredi-27">
<p>
L'école a eu un remplaçant, donc elle a choisi de sécher les cours. Le matin, elle et moi avons travaillé sur ses devoirs dehors. Elle était de bonne humeur. L'après-midi, elle était un peu triste parce qu'elle attendait une réponse de son amie, et elle s'est blottie sur le canapé. Une fois qu'elle a finalement reçu une réponse, j'ai emmené ma fille au parc pour jouer avec ses amies. Elle s'est très amusée, donc j'ai eu vraiment du temps pour penser pendant qu'elle jouait.
</p>

<p>
J'ai finalement envoyé les factures pour le mois de mars et d'avril.
</p>

<p>
Ma mère est restée à la maison parce qu'elle avait fait une petite chute.
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="outline-container-entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-jeudi-28" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-jeudi-28"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-jeudi-28">jeudi 28</a></h3>
<div class="outline-text-3" id="text-entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-jeudi-28">
<p>
J'ai discuté avec Protesilaos sur les recommandations sur Emacs pour divers utilisateurs.
</p>

<p>
Ma fille et moi avons joué au Scrabble sur le porche pendant la pause déjeuner. Nous avons aussi joué au Scrabble avec mon mari après le dîner. Nous avons commencé à compter les points, bien que nous ayons toujours joué en coopération.
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="outline-container-entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-vendredi-29" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-vendredi-29"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-vendredi-29">vendredi 29</a></h3>
<div class="outline-text-3" id="text-entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-vendredi-29">
<p>
J'ai interviewé Omar Antolin Camarena sur sa configuration et ses flux de travail sur Emacs. J'ai travaillé sur la publication des transcriptions vers le format PDF. J'ai ajouté la fonctionnalité d'exclure des sections par format selon les étiquettes.
</p>

<p>
J'ai pratiqué la prononciation française.
</p>

<p>
J'ai emmené ma fille à un cours de rattrapage de gymnastique aérienne.
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="outline-container-entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-samedi-30" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-samedi-30"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-samedi-30">samedi 30</a></h3>
<div class="outline-text-3" id="text-entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-samedi-30">
<p>
Ma fille s'est amusée toute seule à faire des bulles et à jouer avec de la mousse à raser.
</p>

<p>
Ma fille a voulu des vêtements neufs et un jouet anti-stress, donc je l'ai emmenée dans différents magasins. Elle n'a pas aimé le Thinking Putty au début qu'elle a choisi parce qu'il a des paillettes. Nous sommes prudentes avec les paillettes pour éviter de gratter son œil si elle le frotte. Après avoir joué avec le Putty, elle a décidé qu'elle l'aime, et elle va simplement bien se laver les mains.
</p>

<p>
Pour explorer de nouvelles saveurs, nous avons mangé chez KFC.
</p>

<p>
Pendant qu'elle regardait des émissions, j'ai ajouté une commande à mon logiciel pour effacer des images incorrectes afin que j'en téléverse une nouvelle.
</p>

<p>
Nous avons joué à Donjons et Dragons ensemble pour nous exercer au rôle de meneuse de jeu. Mon roublard halfelin a vaincu un <a href="https://www.donjondudragon.fr/drs/ad-d2/bestiaire-monstrueux/8937-mephite-generalites.html">méphite</a>, mais le <a href="https://www.donjondudragon.fr/drs/ad-d/bestiaire-monstrueux/12605-mimique.html">mimique</a> dans l'autre pièce était trop pour moi. Du côté de ma fille, elle a aidé Cornflower avec les devoirs de la ferme.
</p>

<p>
Mon mari et moi avons discuté des voyages. Même si voyager est bien recommandé pour se découvrir soi-même, il y a d'autres façons de le faire, donc il vaut mieux bien réfléchir. Pour le moment, je pense qu'il vaut mieux que j'aide ma fille à apprendre à apprécier ce qui est proche.
</p>

<p>
Ma fille a dit qu'elle a du cérumen, donc elle a utilisé de l'huile minérale pour le déloger. Ça a marché.
</p>

<p>
Après le dîner, j'ai fait les courses seule.
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="outline-container-entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-dimanche-31" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-dimanche-31"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-dimanche-31">dimanche 31</a></h3>
<div class="outline-text-3" id="text-entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai-dimanche-31">
<p>
Mon mari était trop frustré aujourd'hui, donc mon mari et ma fille étaient tous les deux grincheux. Je me demande ce qui se passe.
</p>

<p>
Quand même, pendant qu'ils se débrouillaient, j'ai travaillé sur les transcriptions de mes entretiens récents. J'ai aussi poussé des mises à jour de mon outil pour écrire le sous-titrage. J'ai oublié de vérifier mes changements avec les tests, mais heureusement, il y avait juste un bug et le bug était dans le test au lieu du code. J'ai aussi restauré les articles que j'ai accidentellement effacés. Ensuite, j'ai recherché des machines à coudre pour ma sœur et mes nièces qui habitent aux Pays-Bas, parce que leur ancienne machine était abîmée.
</p>

<p>
Ma fille s'est très amusée en jouant comme la meneuse de jeu dans un jeu de Donjons et Dragons avec sa tante. Elle veut être la meneuse de jeu pour un jeu avec ses tantes et ses cousines la semaine prochaine, donc sa tante lui a offert l'occasion de s'entraîner.
</p>

<p>
J'ai appelé ma mère. Elle m'a dit que ma tante lui demandait à plusieurs reprises si nous lui rendrions un jour visite. Eh ben, ma tante ne nous aidera pas à élever notre enfant si je suis malade, donc son opinion ne compte pas pour moi.
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/la-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai/index.org">View Org source for this post</a></div>
<p>You can <a href="mailto:sacha@sachachua.com?subject=Comment%20on%20https%3A%2F%2Fsachachua.com%2Fblog%2F2026%2F06%2Fla-semaine-du-25-au-31-mai%2F&body=Name%20you%20want%20to%20be%20credited%20by%20(if%20any)%3A%20%0AMessage%3A%20%0ACan%20I%20share%20your%20comment%20so%20other%20people%20can%20learn%20from%20it%3F%20Yes%2FNo%0A">e-mail me at sacha@sachachua.com</a>.</p>]]></description>
		</item><item>
		<title>La semaine du 18 au 24 mai</title>
		<link>https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/la-semaine-du-18-au-24-mai/</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sacha Chua]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2026 17:40:53 GMT</pubDate>
    <category>french</category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/la-semaine-du-18-au-24-mai/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<div class="sticky-toc" id="org8c6d383">
<div id="text-table-of-contents" role="doc-toc">
<ul>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#org5995688">lundi 18</a></li>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#org5bd3fed">mardi 19</a></li>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#org6ca3635">mercredi 20</a></li>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#org32ab452">jeudi 21</a></li>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#org7f33001">vendredi 22</a></li>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#org19c8a18">samedi 23</a></li>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-18-au-24-mai-dimanche-24">dimanche 24</a></li>
</ul>
</div>

</div>
<div id="outline-container-org5995688" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="org5995688"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#org5995688">lundi 18</a></h3>
<div class="outline-text-3" id="text-org5995688">
<p>
Je me suis réveillée très tôt pour interroger ma sœur qui est très malade d'un cancer. Nous voulons enregistrer des vidéos pour ses jeunes filles et son mari. Sa fille aînée a commencé à l'interviewer, mais bien sûr, il y a des sujets dont elles ne peuvent peut-être pas parler pour le moment. Je l'ai appelée sur Facebook Messenger et j'ai utilisé OBS pour enregistrer l'appel. J'ai un flux de travail pour corriger et formater la transcription, et je suis ravie de l'utiliser pour ma famille.
</p>

<p>
Il faisait très chaud. C'était notre première vague de chaleur intense cette année. J'ai emmené ma fille au parc Amos Waites pour jouer à la pataugeoire là-bas. Elle a vraiment aimé la robe-maillot que nous avons cousue. Elle adorait tourner dans le siège pivotant que notre parc à proximité n'a pas. Elle a tellement joué qu'elle s'est endormie sur le chemin du retour.
</p>

<p>
Après le dîner, ma fille et moi sommes allées à un autre parc pour regarder des feux d'artifice pour la fête de la Reine. Il y avait beaucoup de gens, donc je pense que c'était un rassemblement habituel pour les jours de fête où les feux d'artifice sont autorisés.
</p>

<p>
J'ai terminé la révision de la transcription de ma conversation avec Prot et Philip. Je pense que l'audio de Philip est parfois trop faible, mais je ne suis pas sûre de pouvoir normaliser juste ces segments. Si j'ai une conversation avec un autre locuteur, je peux enregistrer les flux audio séparément, mais dans une conversation entre trois locuteurs (Prot, Philip et moi), je ne peux pas complètement les séparer. En plus, je pense que je ne peux pas remplacer juste l'audio d'une vidéo en diffusion sur YouTube. Peut-être que je peux mettre en ligne une nouvelle vidéo et changer l'ancienne vidéo en une vidéo non répertoriée.
</p>

<p>
À l'heure du coucher, ma fille et moi avons parlé de la neurodivergence, des mathématiques, et des facteurs humains comme les limitations de la boucle auditive comparée à la visualisation. J'adore lui parler de son cerveau.
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="outline-container-org5bd3fed" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="org5bd3fed"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#org5bd3fed">mardi 19</a></h3>
<div class="outline-text-3" id="text-org5bd3fed">
<p>
J'ai essayé de virer de l'argent aux Philippines via Wise. C'était réussi.
</p>

<p>
Je me suis entraînée aux virelangues. Oups, j'ai oublié de confirmer l'audio sur OBS, donc je ne peux pas l'analyser.
</p>

<p>
J'ai réécrit deux transcriptions pour les entretiens de ma sœur.
</p>

<p>
J'ai emmené ma fille au parc pour jouer avec ses amies. J'ai oublié les glaces à l'eau, donc je suis revenue à la maison pour les retrouver.
</p>

<p>
Nous avons pratiqué les permutations et la division posée.
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="outline-container-org6ca3635" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="org6ca3635"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#org6ca3635">mercredi 20</a></h3>
<div class="outline-text-3" id="text-org6ca3635">
<p>
J'ai réécrit encore des transcriptions pour les entretiens de mes nièces avec ma sœur. J'ai configuré un serveur dans notre réseau pour les héberger avec l'authentification basique.
</p>

<p>
L'école avait un remplaçant aujourd'hui. Il a accidentellement éjecté tous les élèves de la salle de réunion virtuelle et tous ont dû attendre que l'enseignant corrige les permissions.
</p>

<p>
J'ai ajouté un gousset aux shorts de bain de ma fille.
</p>

<p>
J'ai emmené ma fille et son amie au parc pour jouer. Elles se sont amusées à me donner des décharges avec l'électricité statique. Après que les autres amies de ma fille sont arrivées, ma fille semblait un peu surstimulée. Elle est partie seule et elle était grincheuse pour le reste de la journée, pauvre chérie.
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="outline-container-org32ab452" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="org32ab452"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#org32ab452">jeudi 21</a></h3>
<div class="outline-text-3" id="text-org32ab452">
<p>
J'ai discuté d'Emacs avec Raymond Zeitler sur une diffusion en direct. C'était la première fois que je lui parlais en vidéo même si nous correspondons depuis 18 ans via les commentaires sur mon blog.
</p>

<p>
Le dentiste a fait deux plombages. Il a proposé un plan de traitement, mais c'est cher, donc je veux bien y réfléchir avant de procéder. Je pense que je veux gagner en confiance avec ce dentiste d'abord. On dirait que la restauration précoce est mieux que d'attendre pour les dents cariées selon les recherches, donc c'est bon, mais on dirait aussi que d'autres dentistes recommandent d'autres niveaux de traitement. J'aime les précautions COVID que ce dentiste prend. Il y a d'autres dentistes (un peu loin) qui prennent aussi ce niveau de précautions, mais ils disent probablement la même recommandation (c'est la même recherche), donc je ne cherche pas particulièrement d'autre conseil. Je ne veux pas passer pour une vache à lait, tu sais?
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="outline-container-org7f33001" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="org7f33001"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#org7f33001">vendredi 22</a></h3>
<div class="outline-text-3" id="text-org7f33001">
<p>
Je me suis réveillée tôt pour une conversation sur la communauté Emacs et l'IA avec Matei Candea, un anthropologue. Il pense à faire une étude ethnographique, et je pense que c'est potentiellement intéressant.
</p>

<p>
J'ai terminé la transcription de ma conversation avec Raymond Zeitler sur Emacs. J'ai remarqué que j'utilisais le mauvais horodatage pour publier les chapitres à partir de la transcription, donc j'ai corrigé l'erreur.
</p>

<p>
Ma fille n'a pas voulu participer à l'école parce qu'il y a eu un remplaçant, donc elle a fait une pause.
</p>

<p>
J'étais fatiguée, donc j'ai fait une sieste.
</p>

<p>
J'ai emmené ma fille au cours de rattrapage de gymnastique. Elle a pris plaisir à apprendre la gymnastique aérienne. Après le cours, ma fille a voulu aller au parc asperge (St. James Park) parce qu'il y a un grand toboggan. Elle s'est entraînée à descendre le toboggan à de nombreuses reprises. Après avoir fait ça, nous avons acheté du sushi. Elle a essayé la tempura de crevettes et elle l'a aimée.
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="outline-container-org19c8a18" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="org19c8a18"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#org19c8a18">samedi 23</a></h3>
<div class="outline-text-3" id="text-org19c8a18">
<p>
Il a beaucoup plu et c'était très venteux, donc nous sommes restées à la maison au lieu d'aller à la célébration de printemps à la ferme Riverdale.
</p>

<p>
Ma fille et moi avons joué à Stardew Valley avec le mod <a href="https://www.nexusmods.com/stardewvalley/mods/41830">Tileman Reworked</a>, qui me demande d'acheter les tuiles auxquelles je veux accéder. J'aime parfois jouer à des jeux avec des limites comme <a href="https://skyblock.net/">Minecraft Skyblock</a> parce que les limites focalisent l'attention et la progression est très différente. Ma fille préfère notre jeu précédent avec le mod <a href="https://www.nexusmods.com/stardewvalley/mods/3753">Stardew Valley Expanded</a>.
</p>

<p>
Pour le dîner, nous avons mangé du sotanghon, qui est une soupe aux nouilles et au poulet. Nous avons aussi essayé le taiyaki congelé. C'était pratique et acceptable, mais bien sûr le taiyaki chez Pat Mart est meilleur.
</p>

<p>
À l'heure du coucher, ma fille et moi avons discuté de la neurodivergence, de la double exceptionnalité, de l'apprentissage des élèves doués, de la différence entre la récupération d'information et de la synthèse. Nous avons aussi discuté de la faune, des maladies, des vaccins, et d'autres sujets.
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="outline-container-entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-18-au-24-mai-dimanche-24" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-18-au-24-mai-dimanche-24"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-18-au-24-mai-dimanche-24">dimanche 24</a></h3>
<div class="outline-text-3" id="text-entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-18-au-24-mai-dimanche-24">
<p>
J'ai parlé avec mon mari du TDAH. Il pense que je suis juste préoccupée, et ce n'est pas grave. C'est bon. Je ne veux pas laisser ma vie être perturbée au point d'avoir des problèmes dans deux zones ou plus dans ma vie pour obtenir possiblement un diagnostic, ce qui ne m'aiderait probablement pas beaucoup plus. Quand même, je peux continuer d'explorer comment je peux m'adapter à mon cerveau et ma situation.
</p>

<p>
Ma fille et moi avons préparé du lait au sucre brun et aux perles boba faites à la main.
</p>

<p>
Mon mari, ma fille et moi sommes allés aux Stockyards pour faire des courses. Nous avons acheté une boîte de mangues, des perles boba, des haricots azuki, et d'autres aliments. Nous avons préparé une fournée de mochis aux haricots azuki.
</p>

<p>
J'ai recherché quelques dessins pour les transcriptions. Je pense que je veux inclure les noms des interlocuteurs dans la marge gauche et les horodatages dans la marge droite. Je veux aussi réécrire la transcription pour supprimer les mots de remplissage.
</p>

<p>
Pour le dîner, nous avons mangé du curry japonais.
</p>

<p>
Je me suis couchée tard parce que sur Stardew, j'ai finalement accédé à la caisse chez Pierre pour acheter des graines dans la troisième année. La progression est très lente. Heureusement, le mod <a href="https://www.nexusmods.com/stardewvalley/mods/32354">HibernationRedux</a> me permet de sauter le temps pendant que j'attendais la croissance des arbres.
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/la-semaine-du-18-au-24-mai/index.org">View Org source for this post</a></div>
<p>You can <a href="mailto:sacha@sachachua.com?subject=Comment%20on%20https%3A%2F%2Fsachachua.com%2Fblog%2F2026%2F06%2Fla-semaine-du-18-au-24-mai%2F&body=Name%20you%20want%20to%20be%20credited%20by%20(if%20any)%3A%20%0AMessage%3A%20%0ACan%20I%20share%20your%20comment%20so%20other%20people%20can%20learn%20from%20it%3F%20Yes%2FNo%0A">e-mail me at sacha@sachachua.com</a>.</p>]]></description>
		</item><item>
		<title>Transcript of chat with Matei Candea about Emacs and AI</title>
		<link>https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/transcript-of-chat-with-matei-candea-about-emacs-and-ai/</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sacha Chua]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2026 19:28:55 GMT</pubDate>
    <category>emacs</category>
<category>ai</category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/transcript-of-chat-with-matei-candea-about-emacs-and-ai/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>
This is an edited transcript of my chat with Matei Candea, an anthropologist who is curious about the Emacs community and AI. Sharing it here with permission so that it becomes a thing I can refer to and in case it sparks further conversations. AI is a bit of a contentious topic, so I hope people will be patient and kind as we figure things out!
</p>

<p>
Related links:
</p>

<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://www.cam.ac.uk/stories/ai-and-scholarship-manifesto">AI and scholarship: a manifesto | University of Cambridge</a></li>
<li><a href="https://batsov.com/articles/2026/03/09/emacs-and-vim-in-the-age-of-ai/">Emacs and Vim in the Age of AI | (think)</a></li>
<li><a href="https://sockpuppet.org/blog/2026/05/12/emacsification/">The Emacsification of Software — Quarrelsome</a> (<a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48118727">HN</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.winestockwebdesign.com/Essays/Lisp_Curse.html">The Lisp Curse</a></li>
<li><a href="https://emacsconf.org/">EmacsConf</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Usergroups">EmacsWiki: Usergroups</a></li>
<li><a href="https://emacslife.com/calendar/">Emacs calendar</a></li>
</ul>

<details class="code-details"><summary>Expand for the transcript</summary>
<p>
</p><div class="full-transcript"><p></p><div class="transcript-heading">
</div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="" data-start="21.220000" data-stop="131.399000">
NOTE Matei is an anthropologist; ethnographic research</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="" data-start="132.443000" data-stop="137.200000">What I actually do for work is to do <b>ethnographic research</b>,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="" data-start="137.201000" data-stop="137.955000">to interview people.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="" data-start="138.095000" data-stop="140.240000">I've written a lot about scientific communities.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="" data-start="140.260000" data-stop="143.286000">For instance, I've written articles on</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="" data-start="143.823000" data-stop="146.084000">behavioral scientists who work with animals</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="" data-start="146.085000" data-stop="147.333000">and how they think about knowledge</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="" data-start="147.334000" data-stop="148.500000">and technology and stuff.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="" data-start="148.501000" data-stop="151.784000">Completely independently of that,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="" data-start="151.785000" data-stop="153.167000">I kind of got into Emacs</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="" data-start="153.168000" data-stop="154.234000">and got really excited.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="" data-start="154.235000" data-stop="156.150000">About four years later, I was, like,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="" data-start="156.151000" data-stop="158.950000">wait a minute, why don't I do an ethnography</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="" data-start="158.951000" data-stop="160.768000">of Emacs as a community?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="160.748000" data-stop="163.392000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Really cool people.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="163.393000" data-stop="164.193000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Right? Really cool people.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading">Curious about Emacs as a community in the time of AI</div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="164.194000" data-stop="166.036000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong> I think what I'm really saying is</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="166.037000" data-stop="169.904000"><b>Emacs as a community in the time of AI</b> and how that's</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="169.985000" data-stop="172.609000">shifting or not shifting how people are using it,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="172.669000" data-stop="177.999000">and what it does. I've spoken to Prot on</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="178.059000" data-stop="180.363000">Monday. That was the first interview I did, and we</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="180.383000" data-stop="183.128000">had a great chat. I basically</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="183.901000" data-stop="186.345000">asked him how he got into Emacs and what</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="186.405000" data-stop="187.988000">it meant to him and what his relationship is to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="188.028000" data-stop="189.391000">the community and stuff,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="189.831000" data-stop="191.995000">and then a bit about AI and then a bit about what</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="192.676000" data-stop="196.599000">he feels are the interactions between the two.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="196.600000" data-stop="200.649000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong> That's, broadly speaking, what I would be interested in doing with you.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="200.650000" data-stop="207.462000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong> If you think there's a broader conversation,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="211.100000" data-stop="213.197000">we could live stream and have an actual</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="213.237000" data-stop="215.219000">chat about how people use Emacs.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="215.499000" data-stop="217.001000">By the way, I'm very happy also to tell you</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="217.041000" data-stop="225.630000">where my own trajectory was that I got into Emacs</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="226.671000" data-stop="230.635000">weirdly and randomly about a year before ChatGPT</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="230.675000" data-stop="231.656000">really hit the mainstream.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="233.038000" data-stop="236.942000">The thing that you read by me was written because</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="237.361000" data-stop="239.725000">me and Ella together were</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="240.145000" data-stop="242.409000">trying to figure out Cambridge's response to AI</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="243.030000" data-stop="243.631000">as a university.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="243.651000" data-stop="244.632000">Like, what are we going to do about it?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="245.353000" data-stop="246.515000">If I'm going to be</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="246.555000" data-stop="247.977000">talking about that, I need to know how it works.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="248.278000" data-stop="250.661000">But I don't want to use AI in my own actual work</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="250.801000" data-stop="253.425000">or in my teaching, because I think it's a bit dodgy.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="253.466000" data-stop="254.447000">I don't really like it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="254.467000" data-stop="256.329000">Why don't I just do it with this kind of side</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="256.690000" data-stop="258.974000">project I've got, which is learning Emacs, right?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="260.216000" data-stop="262.339000">And the weird paradoxical thing was that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="263.011000" data-stop="268.279000">I now basically kind of live in Emacs.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="268.681000" data-stop="271.784000">My email is mu4e.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="272.625000" data-stop="275.769000">If you saw my screen now, the notes are basically</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="275.789000" data-stop="277.951000">a narrowed Org buffer with questions.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="278.011000" data-stop="280.113000">Everything's email.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="280.914000" data-stop="283.617000">But I don't think I could have got there that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="283.697000" data-stop="285.158000">fast if it hadn't been for the fact that I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="285.199000" data-stop="287.961000">started asking ChatGPT, like, "Oh, this isn't</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="288.002000" data-stop="288.362000">working.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="288.902000" data-stop="291.365000">Can you just write me a defun that does this?"</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="293.167000" data-stop="294.568000">I'm not completely vibe coding.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="295.109000" data-stop="297.872000">I'm trying to learn Elisp at the same time, but</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="297.912000" data-stop="300.308000">I'm in this weird position where...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="300.309000" data-stop="303.978000">Anyway, this is why for me it raised these questions of:</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="304.859000" data-stop="307.182000">what does learning Emacs in the time of AI mean?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="308.263000" data-stop="311.777000">As you can probably gather from the manifesto,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="311.778000" data-stop="313.528000">I'm not pushing it at all.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="313.548000" data-stop="316.011000">I'm really ambivalent about the use of AI.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="316.632000" data-stop="319.615000">I find myself doing it and kind of sort of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="319.735000" data-stop="320.696000">worrying about doing it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="322.394000" data-stop="329.284000">Would you be happy to do an interview like I did</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="329.324000" data-stop="329.685000">with Prot?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="330.406000" data-stop="331.968000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Yeah, we can certainly do that.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="332.148000" data-stop="335.653000">In addition to whatever I can share from my</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="335.713000" data-stop="338.477000">personal experiences, I think your interest in</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="338.517000" data-stop="341.061000">understanding and describing the community and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="341.101000" data-stop="344.706000">the culture and how it's interacting with this AI</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="344.766000" data-stop="348.151000">thing, I think it'll offer a perspective that is</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="348.231000" data-stop="350.815000">different from what you usually see,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="350.795000" data-stop="356.523000">because Emacs users have had this long tradition</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="356.784000" data-stop="359.908000">of fiddling with things and making it really</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="360.008000" data-stop="363.173000">malleable and fitting it to them and figuring</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="363.193000" data-stop="364.315000">this out in dialogue.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="364.575000" data-stop="367.800000">It's figuring out in dialogue with themselves as</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="367.840000" data-stop="369.622000">they figure out their workflows, with the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="369.682000" data-stop="371.605000">software as they learn from the code, with other</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="371.665000" data-stop="374.629000">people, with resources on the internet not necessarily</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="374.669000" data-stop="375.831000">attached to specific people.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="376.332000" data-stop="377.814000">That's got a really long history.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="378.935000" data-stop="382.100000">It's really interesting to see how AI both</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="382.320000" data-stop="385.344000">has plus sides and minus sides in this whole mix.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="386.686000" data-stop="388.869000">It definitely, I think, will offer some</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="388.949000" data-stop="392.053000">insight that you won't hear with the frothy AI hype</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="392.674000" data-stop="395.758000">that other communities have.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="395.778000" data-stop="396.900000">It's all very interesting.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="397.133000" data-stop="397.596000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Amazing.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="398.824000" data-stop="400.998000">Let's start with a general kind of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="401.038000" data-stop="401.421000">interview thing.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading">How did I first get into Emacs</div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="401.441000" data-stop="403.937000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong> <b>How did you first get into Emacs?</b></span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="405.048000" data-stop="406.710000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I was going through all the books</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="406.770000" data-stop="409.214000">in my university library about</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="409.254000" data-stop="409.955000">computer science.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="410.295000" data-stop="411.817000">One of them was Unix Power Tools.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="412.218000" data-stop="414.461000">I was like, there's this chapter on Emacs,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="414.501000" data-stop="416.363000">and it mentions Tetris and other things.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="416.423000" data-stop="418.586000">What is going on here?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="418.606000" data-stop="419.047000">I tried it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="420.068000" data-stop="420.769000">It was great.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="421.150000" data-stop="422.091000">I liked it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="422.251000" data-stop="425.596000">Then in fourth year or so, my screen stopped</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="425.636000" data-stop="425.996000">working.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="427.598000" data-stop="428.640000">I didn't want to replace it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="429.080000" data-stop="430.843000">But there was Emacspeak.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="431.243000" data-stop="432.160000">I was amazed.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="440.140000" data-stop="440.988000">Lots of people had</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="441.408000" data-stop="443.872000">put together Emacspeak so I could use the computer</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="444.212000" data-stop="445.193000">with a broken screen.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="446.575000" data-stop="448.037000">I could still read it periodically,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="448.197000" data-stop="450.160000">if I tilted it and kind of looked at the low</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="450.180000" data-stop="453.224000">contrast thing… The speech synthesis</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="453.264000" data-stop="454.085000">worked just fine.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="454.940000" data-stop="455.885000">I'm going to program this way.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="455.886000" data-stop="459.572000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong> I'll plug into a monitor when I'm back in my room.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="459.632000" data-stop="462.536000">But if I'm out and about, I have this other way</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="462.556000" data-stop="463.557000">to do it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="463.537000" data-stop="466.760000">Something that maybe most programs would not have</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="467.441000" data-stop="469.443000">anticipated, but because somebody had built it for themselves,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="470.304000" data-stop="471.345000">it was something I could use.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="471.806000" data-stop="474.389000">Before I got into Emacsspeak, I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="474.629000" data-stop="477.552000">got into Planner Mode because I was a university</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="477.592000" data-stop="478.913000">student and I was taking notes.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="479.334000" data-stop="481.296000">Planner Mode was an easy way for me to keep</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="481.376000" data-stop="482.237000">track of tasks.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="482.477000" data-stop="485.339000">It was more flexible than other to-do managers.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="485.340000" data-stop="490.625000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong> It's one of the packages that was popular before Org Mode.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="493.280000" data-stop="495.342000">I started using that to write my blog.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="495.983000" data-stop="498.928000">Blogs had just been invented around then.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="499.048000" data-stop="501.591000">I was figuring out, how do I export RSS</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="501.672000" data-stop="502.252000">out of this?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="502.913000" data-stop="505.817000">I was able to customize it to do that.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="506.398000" data-stop="507.440000">I liked it so much</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="507.540000" data-stop="510.003000">I emailed John Wiegley, who had created Planner Mode.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="510.024000" data-stop="511.946000">I said, hey, I can help you fix bugs.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="512.948000" data-stop="517.354000">He said, great, you're the new maintainer now.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="517.469000" data-stop="520.772000">Which was actually very good for me because I was</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="520.871000" data-stop="523.695000">a university student in the Philippines, and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="523.775000" data-stop="525.877000">Philippines, and normally we don't get to work on anything</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="525.917000" data-stop="526.497000">really cool.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="526.537000" data-stop="529.400000">Suddenly I was in this global community of people.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="529.740000" data-stop="530.601000">There was a mailing list.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="530.621000" data-stop="534.104000">People would send in questions or feature requests.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="534.124000" data-stop="536.186000">I would share the things that I was working on.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="536.687000" data-stop="538.208000">They were very, very patient with me.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="538.268000" data-stop="540.550000">Like that one time, one of my changes</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="540.851000" data-stop="543.193000">accidentally deleted somebody's notes and they</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="543.213000" data-stop="545.755000">were still nice to me afterwards.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="546.325000" data-stop="548.730000">The community has always been part of how I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="548.770000" data-stop="550.715000">experience Emacs.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="550.995000" data-stop="553.381000">Learning in public has also always been part</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="553.461000" data-stop="556.467000">of how I've been figuring out what I can do with</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="556.568000" data-stop="559.614000">it and changing it to fit my needs,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="559.895000" data-stop="562.381000">as very idiosyncratic as they are sometimes...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="562.942000" data-stop="565.247000">It has also always been part of my experience of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="565.327000" data-stop="565.768000">Emacs.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="566.086000" data-stop="569.790000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  When did this start?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="570.111000" data-stop="578.200000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Very shortly after I started Emacs, I started</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="578.241000" data-stop="579.001000">blogging with it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="579.302000" data-stop="581.585000">My first blog post from that is 2001.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="582.526000" data-stop="582.726000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Right.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="583.327000" data-stop="585.289000">You were studying computer science?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="585.309000" data-stop="587.031000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I was studying computer science, yes.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="587.720000" data-stop="590.063000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Are you a computer scientist now?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="590.303000" data-stop="592.605000">What do you do when you're not doing Emacs?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="592.625000" data-stop="594.507000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Most of the time, I'm still focused</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="594.567000" data-stop="596.450000">on full-time parenting, which is why I'm going</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="596.510000" data-stop="598.512000">over to the freezer now to remember to put yogurt</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="598.572000" data-stop="600.053000">in the freezer.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="601.175000" data-stop="603.978000">I do a tiny, tiny, tiny bit of consulting, but</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="604.458000" data-stop="607.722000">consulting, but for the last 10 years or so, I've just been</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="607.742000" data-stop="610.605000">focused on parenting.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="610.585000" data-stop="612.768000">Playing with Emacs and being in touch with the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="612.788000" data-stop="614.650000">Emacs community has been one of the ways that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="614.670000" data-stop="615.932000">I've kind of kept sane.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="616.813000" data-stop="621.878000">I've enjoyed the intellectual puzzles of:</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="621.879000" data-stop="622.805000">I have this thing that I want to do,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="622.806000" data-stop="624.543000">how do I do it with code</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="625.584000" data-stop="628.487000">in ways that I can fit into five minutes here,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="628.488000" data-stop="630.210000">ten minutes there of my life.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="631.151000" data-stop="633.454000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Do you do any other coding or just Elisp?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="633.957000" data-stop="636.800000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  JavaScript, Python on occasion.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="638.822000" data-stop="641.225000">Some of my consulting involves making little</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="641.265000" data-stop="644.448000">JavaScript prototypes for ideas that my client</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="644.488000" data-stop="648.392000">has, but it's really just an hour a week, maybe less.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="649.293000" data-stop="652.537000">But for fun, I still write a bit of JavaScript and Python.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="653.578000" data-stop="655.380000">Emacs Lisp, however, is what I usually write</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="655.440000" data-stop="657.102000">because it's so much easier to do things when</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="657.122000" data-stop="658.403000">you've got the full editor with you.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="659.124000" data-stop="662.007000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Yes, that makes sense.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="662.425000" data-stop="664.352000">I've got a million questions, but I'm going to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="664.372000" data-stop="665.215000">try and do them in order.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="666.199000" data-stop="667.705000">You've said a little bit about this already, but</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading">What do you love about Emacs?</div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="667.745000" data-stop="672.402000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong> <b>what do you love about Emacs?</b></span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="672.668000" data-stop="674.230000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  You can come up with a crazy idea</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="674.851000" data-stop="676.073000">and you can actually make it happen.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="676.674000" data-stop="679.699000">So, for example, I've been doing a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="679.739000" data-stop="681.721000">lot of conversations,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="681.722000" data-stop="684.847000">interviewing people or working with my sister's interviews.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="684.907000" data-stop="687.090000">I always like turning these into text</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="687.671000" data-stop="689.353000">because text is a lot more searchable.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="689.354000" data-stop="691.016000">Chapters and things like that too, right,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="691.056000" data-stop="692.799000">so that people can jump to just the part they're</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="692.839000" data-stop="693.580000">interested in.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="693.560000" data-stop="697.586000">I don't know how other tools do it, but I love</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="697.606000" data-stop="699.950000">the fact that I can modify Org Mode so that I can</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="700.010000" data-stop="702.874000">capture timestamps. Wall-clock time is easier for</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="702.914000" data-stop="703.455000">me to work with.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="703.695000" data-stop="707.521000">I can say, okay, while I'm typing, I just use</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="707.541000" data-stop="710.285000">an abbreviation to put in the timestamp that's</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="710.305000" data-stop="712.108000">the current time and my rough notes.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="712.488000" data-stop="714.311000">I have another piece of code that translates</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="714.351000" data-stop="716.474000">that into offsets from the start of the video</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="716.514000" data-stop="718.858000">based on YouTube's live stream or the file name</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="718.898000" data-stop="720.360000">of the video.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="720.340000" data-stop="723.424000">Then I can paste that into the subtitle file</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="723.785000" data-stop="725.627000">so that it automatically puts the chapters in</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="725.667000" data-stop="727.149000">roughly the right places.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="727.169000" data-stop="729.993000">As I come up with little workflow ideas, I can</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="730.073000" data-stop="731.555000">actually implement them.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading">Community</div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="731.575000" data-stop="733.458000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong> I also love the <b>community</b> of it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="733.478000" data-stop="736.262000">Looking through the blog posts or as I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="736.302000" data-stop="738.425000">put together Emacs News every week, there's</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="738.465000" data-stop="740.628000">always all these interesting examples from people</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="740.648000" data-stop="742.911000">who are asking the same questions about</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="742.931000" data-stop="744.793000">about "What is it I want to do?" and "How can I do</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="744.854000" data-stop="748.879000">it 0.5% better?"</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="750.395000" data-stop="752.177000">They write these little functions.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="752.217000" data-stop="754.079000">I'm like, oh, that is a fantastic idea.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="754.159000" data-stop="755.741000">I get to absorb that into my life.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="756.682000" data-stop="759.404000">Because I'm seeing it in the context of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="759.424000" data-stop="761.426000">their blog post or their video, you get</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="761.466000" data-stop="764.106000">a glimpse of other people's lives as expressed through code,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="764.730000" data-stop="766.752000">because all of the code is very personal.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="767.232000" data-stop="769.655000">That is one of the things that is good</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="769.695000" data-stop="772.638000">about the fact that people are using AI sometimes</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="772.698000" data-stop="773.559000">to generate this code.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="773.579000" data-stop="774.580000">They can make things that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="774.560000" data-stop="776.882000">things that punch above their weight.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="776.902000" data-stop="779.404000">A newcomer to Emacs can have</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="779.504000" data-stop="781.787000">customized functions that let you fully</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="782.167000" data-stop="783.068000">appreciate its power.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="783.548000" data-stop="786.050000">But on the other hand, if the AI is just</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="786.130000" data-stop="788.432000">generating this code, you don't get a sense of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="788.473000" data-stop="791.075000">like, where's the blog post this is coming from?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="791.195000" data-stop="794.378000">Or who would I talk to to keep up with</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="794.538000" data-stop="796.380000">other crazy ideas they come up with?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="796.400000" data-stop="797.881000">You're limited to just your ideas.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="798.221000" data-stop="799.583000">Then there's the whole thing about</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="799.903000" data-stop="801.044000">license-washing.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="801.664000" data-stop="803.806000">Most of the people release their code under GPL</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="803.846000" data-stop="804.472000">because it's Emacs,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="804.473000" data-stop="807.892000">but the large language models never mention that.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="807.912000" data-stop="810.375000">They never say, you also have the right to go and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="810.435000" data-stop="813.239000">share this and modify this and build on top of it</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="813.319000" data-stop="815.822000">and contribute back to the community.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="818.946000" data-stop="821.951000">Anyway, it doesn't feel right, the code.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="821.971000" data-stop="824.234000">It doesn't quite get the conventions and the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="824.334000" data-stop="825.255000">idioms yet.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="825.860000" data-stop="827.562000">So the things that I love about Emacs are</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="827.602000" data-stop="829.966000">generally the fact that it can fit me like a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="830.026000" data-stop="833.430000">glove and it's got this community of people who</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="833.490000" data-stop="837.556000">are also exploring what is possible as crazy as</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="837.696000" data-stop="838.857000">ideas sometimes get.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="838.917000" data-stop="841.261000">There's always some way to hack it in.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading">Do you know how big the community is?</div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="842.622000" data-stop="845.286000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  <p>
<b>Do you know how big the community is?</b></p>
</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="845.941000" data-stop="846.462000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I have no idea.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="847.885000" data-stop="850.769000">We generally feel like it's a lot smaller</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="850.770000" data-stop="853.736000">than VS Code and probably a lot smaller than Vim.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="854.698000" data-stop="858.806000">It depends, of course, on if you're talking about</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="859.106000" data-stop="862.212000">percentage, it depends also on...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="862.192000" data-stop="864.935000">There's a lot of Clojure developers using it,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="864.955000" data-stop="866.717000">because it's the standard Clojure way of doing</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="866.777000" data-stop="869.159000">things, but there are probably a lot fewer Java</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="869.199000" data-stop="871.301000">or JavaScript people using it</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="871.361000" data-stop="873.624000">because a lot of people are in VS Code instead.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="874.565000" data-stop="877.968000">I used to do Google Analytics tracking on my</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="878.008000" data-stop="880.511000">website, but I stripped all of that out because</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="881.472000" data-stop="882.793000">cookies and tracking and all of that.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="884.715000" data-stop="887.878000">When people ask me how many people read this stuff,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="887.858000" data-stop="891.141000">I have no idea, but I do know that every time I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="891.181000" data-stop="895.225000">look for Emacs News, I'm delighted by the breadth</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="896.145000" data-stop="897.467000">that I come across.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="897.587000" data-stop="899.368000">To me, it feels like there's a thriving</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="899.408000" data-stop="901.510000">community that's large enough for my interests.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="902.231000" data-stop="902.531000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Cool.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="902.952000" data-stop="905.234000">You're the second person I've</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="905.254000" data-stop="908.036000">actually spoken to. The first person was Protesilaos.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="908.056000" data-stop="911.880000">I'm struck by the fact that from a sample of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="911.900000" data-stop="915.103000">two, I've got two people who are not based in the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="915.163000" data-stop="916.904000">US, who are super international, and also who are</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="916.924000" data-stop="917.865000">not developers.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="918.757000" data-stop="921.020000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  That is a fantastic thing about it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="921.060000" data-stop="924.063000">I love that we have researchers and sourdough</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="924.083000" data-stop="926.326000">bakers and knitters.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="926.886000" data-stop="928.448000">Of course, the programming part is still there,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="928.468000" data-stop="931.312000">but a lot of people end up getting into some kind</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="931.352000" data-stop="933.514000">of programming because of Emacs.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="933.534000" data-stop="935.637000">Emacs is the only thing they ever code, and they</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="935.677000" data-stop="936.898000">don't even think of it as coding.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="936.978000" data-stop="939.862000">It's just like, I do this, but I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="939.922000" data-stop="941.844000">wanted to be able to do this, so I learned how to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="941.884000" data-stop="943.826000">do Org Mode and source blocks, and that's all I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="943.866000" data-stop="945.388000">can do, but it's great.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="945.807000" data-stop="948.670000">I think that's really interesting because</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="948.730000" data-stop="951.694000">when you talk to people about their origin</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="951.734000" data-stop="953.236000">stories with Emacs…</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="954.858000" data-stop="958.262000">Sure, of course, you have the pockets of people</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="958.302000" data-stop="960.064000">who are like, I'm a computer science</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="960.104000" data-stop="962.046000">student and my professor said use this, so I'm</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="962.126000" data-stop="963.989000">using this, and so forth.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="964.029000" data-stop="966.431000">But then you get these random high school music</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="966.492000" data-stop="968.294000">students who are like, oh, yeah, I just saw this</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="968.354000" data-stop="969.956000">video and I thought it looked really cool, so I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="969.996000" data-stop="970.977000">taught myself how to do that.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="970.997000" data-stop="972.919000">I don't know anybody else who uses it in real</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="972.979000" data-stop="974.481000">life, but I like it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="974.883000" data-stop="979.188000">Musicians using it live to do performance...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="979.189000" data-stop="982.713000">Where are these people coming from? But they come across it,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="982.773000" data-stop="985.116000">and it just strikes a chord with them, deep in</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="985.136000" data-stop="988.180000">their souls. It appeals to a certain</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="988.400000" data-stop="991.383000">tinkerer type, I guess.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="991.384000" data-stop="993.928000">They just continue with it. They get stuck.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="994.228000" data-stop="996.010000">Sometimes they leave and they come back, and all</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="996.050000" data-stop="996.490000">that stuff…</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="996.491000" data-stop="1000.536000">But the breadth is one of my favorite things about Emacs.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1000.685000" data-stop="1004.053000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Do you think that most of the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1004.093000" data-stop="1005.817000">people in the community are probably developers?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1005.837000" data-stop="1007.601000">Because when you were saying the community, you</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1007.641000" data-stop="1011.170000">compared it to Vim and VS Code, which is to think</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1011.210000" data-stop="1014.778000">of it really as an IDE kind of thing.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1015.214000" data-stop="1016.817000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  That's usually what people talk</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1016.857000" data-stop="1018.539000">about, right?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1018.700000" data-stop="1020.643000">Because usually when people are thinking, how</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1020.743000" data-stop="1025.851000">popular is this, they're stacking it up against developer tools</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1025.972000" data-stop="1031.359000">because those are the surveys that the development websites do.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1031.800000" data-stop="1035.294000">Stack Overflow or State of Clojure or whatever.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1035.714000" data-stop="1037.539000">They'll ask people, “What editor do you use?”</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1038.741000" data-stop="1041.988000">But given Emacs' surprising</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1042.028000" data-stop="1043.952000">popularity among people who are, for example,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1044.794000" data-stop="1047.039000">diagnosed with ADHD and find that Org Mode is the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1047.118000" data-stop="1048.521000">only way they can manage their brains…</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1048.722000" data-stop="1049.504000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Is that a thing?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1049.825000" data-stop="1050.767000">That's really interesting.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1052.270000" data-stop="1056.452000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  In a number of Reddit threads that I've seen,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1056.953000" data-stop="1058.956000">people are like, yeah, I'm not a programmer, but</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1059.277000" data-stop="1061.300000">Org Mode is the only way that I've figured out</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1061.360000" data-stop="1062.281000">how to manage my brain.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1062.422000" data-stop="1065.246000">Or people will come to Emacs from something else</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1065.386000" data-stop="1069.192000">specifically for Org Mode because of the way that it</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1069.593000" data-stop="1072.057000">can help them manage their tasks or agenda,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1072.077000" data-stop="1075.722000">because they can sculpt it to fit what their</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1075.782000" data-stop="1077.445000">specific workflow could be.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1078.707000" data-stop="1079.528000">It's amazing.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1079.508000" data-stop="1081.372000">Of course, we've got the writers</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1081.452000" data-stop="1083.677000">and the researchers who are like,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1083.697000" data-stop="1086.262000">"I love publishing beautifully typeset</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1086.302000" data-stop="1088.046000">things, but I don't like working with LaTeX all</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1088.066000" data-stop="1090.651000">that much, so let me just figure out the template once."</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1092.756000" data-stop="1094.419000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Yeah, totally.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1094.439000" data-stop="1096.283000">I really came to Emacs because I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1096.323000" data-stop="1097.907000">was looking for an outliner.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1100.416000" data-stop="1102.819000">I'd been writing in Markdown</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1102.820000" data-stop="1105.653000">for a while. I was really getting sick of the heavy</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1105.654000" data-stop="1109.986000">Word stuff. And I was, like, Org Mode, omg, it's amazing!</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1109.987000" data-stop="1113.653000">Then from there, I was bitten.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading">Do you have any frustrations with Emacs?</div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1113.654000" data-stop="1116.012000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  <p>
<b>Do you have any frustrations with Emacs?</b></p>
</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1116.734000" data-stop="1118.996000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I would like to have more time in</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1119.036000" data-stop="1120.418000">the day to fiddle with things.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1123.441000" data-stop="1129.086000">In terms of the balance between fiddling with my</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1129.147000" data-stop="1131.409000">config and doing the thing that I want to do, if</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1131.469000" data-stop="1136.534000">I sandwich it so that I do my 5 to 15 minutes</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1136.634000" data-stop="1138.876000">of Emacs fiddling at the start, then I'm</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1138.936000" data-stop="1141.259000">motivated to go through the task because I want</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1141.279000" data-stop="1143.501000">to test that my improvement works.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1143.481000" data-stop="1146.445000">Then it becomes a good balance for me.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1146.485000" data-stop="1149.069000">I don't spend all the time feeling like I'm</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1149.109000" data-stop="1151.052000">yak shaving, and I don't spend the time struggling</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1151.072000" data-stop="1152.634000">with workflow because I didn't take the time to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1152.714000" data-stop="1153.195000">automate it.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1156.179000" data-stop="1158.501000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong> I would like to have more time,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1158.502000" data-stop="1159.503000">because I always come up with</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1159.504000" data-stop="1162.348000">more ideas in the middle of something.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1163.309000" data-stop="1164.651000">"I know this is possible.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1164.691000" data-stop="1167.153000">I just have to sit down and do it, and it'll be great.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1167.674000" data-stop="1170.597000">But okay, I have to wait till my next 5 to 15</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1170.637000" data-stop="1173.561000">minute window where I can fiddle with it again."</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1174.342000" data-stop="1176.544000">The other thing that I've been trying to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1176.604000" data-stop="1179.668000">figure out is: how do you help people develop that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1179.808000" data-stop="1183.913000">intuition for how to do things, how to make Emacs</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1183.973000" data-stop="1184.453000">do things?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1186.816000" data-stop="1189.001000">We see a lot of people come into the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1189.262000" data-stop="1191.548000">community. They might get stuck on some things.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1191.808000" data-stop="1195.617000">The tutorial is very useful, but it can be</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1195.678000" data-stop="1196.219000">overwhelming.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1196.259000" data-stop="1198.384000">The whole Emacs thing can be very overwhelming</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1198.444000" data-stop="1198.885000">for people.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1199.627000" data-stop="1203.677000">How you help people get</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1203.657000" data-stop="1207.302000">through that part is something that's of great</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1207.422000" data-stop="1208.824000">interest to me.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1209.645000" data-stop="1212.669000">Bringing it back to AI and large</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1212.709000" data-stop="1215.393000">language models, the fact that people can</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1215.453000" data-stop="1219.599000">sometimes have a conversation with this endlessly</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1219.679000" data-stop="1223.524000">patient tutor where they might be too embarrassed</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1223.544000" data-stop="1225.567000">to ask their questions on a mailing list or a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1225.647000" data-stop="1227.690000">forum, I think that's fantastic.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1228.025000" data-stop="1231.891000">But also, going to your manifesto's points about</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1233.033000" data-stop="1236.598000">learning by doing and education and the eureka</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1236.638000" data-stop="1239.523000">moment, we also don't want this quick and easy</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1239.623000" data-stop="1242.888000">help to rob people of the understanding that they</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1242.968000" data-stop="1246.534000">get from looking at it and tweaking the code or</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1246.594000" data-stop="1248.197000">learning how to read through the source code</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1248.237000" data-stop="1249.138000">themselves.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1249.118000" data-stop="1254.665000">There's just so much there that I would hate for</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1254.705000" data-stop="1258.090000">people to just get stuck in the “please generate</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1258.110000" data-stop="1261.074000">this code for me" level rather than be able to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1261.134000" data-stop="1263.317000">learn this is how I start learning from other</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1263.357000" data-stop="1265.199000">people's source code so that I can come up with</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1265.239000" data-stop="1265.880000">more ideas.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1267.682000" data-stop="1268.063000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  That's right.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1269.084000" data-stop="1270.546000">That's also what I think basically.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1274.511000" data-stop="1275.713000">Here's an interesting question.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading">Would you ever leave Emacs?</div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1276.674000" data-stop="1278.096000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  <p>
<b>Would you ever leave Emacs?</b></p>
</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1278.953000" data-stop="1281.819000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I cannot imagine an editor at the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1281.879000" data-stop="1283.963000">moment that would let me get away with nearly</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1284.083000" data-stop="1287.310000">half of the things that I do, but maybe even less.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1289.194000" data-stop="1292.300000">Right now, I've got so many odd little</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1292.360000" data-stop="1294.785000">customizations for it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1294.951000" data-stop="1301.779000">For example, on my phone, I'll use Orgzly Revived</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1301.819000" data-stop="1304.002000">to capture a quick note so that I can go back</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1304.042000" data-stop="1306.125000">into Emacs later and do it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1306.785000" data-stop="1309.689000">But even though I'm comfortable programming in</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1309.709000" data-stop="1311.631000">JavaScript and Python, and there are lots of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1311.711000" data-stop="1315.636000">tools available there, the interactive interface</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1315.696000" data-stop="1318.900000">part of things is something that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1318.880000" data-stop="1322.668000">I don't see any other program give me the same</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1322.728000" data-stop="1326.896000">kind of platform of support or building blocks to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1326.936000" data-stop="1327.397000">play with.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1328.139000" data-stop="1332.788000">Who knows? If some day, this thing manages to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1332.828000" data-stop="1336.335000">support all of my hacks built on hacks and gives</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1336.355000" data-stop="1339.842000">me that same kind of feedback loop, but it's also</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1339.822000" data-stop="1341.885000">multithreaded and graphical and whatever,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1342.686000" data-stop="1346.491000">I might give it a try. But at the moment since I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1346.531000" data-stop="1348.894000">can get away with so much in Emacs and I know</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1348.934000" data-stop="1350.916000">that people behind the scenes are working on</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1351.017000" data-stop="1353.420000">adding even more to it, it's okay,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1353.480000" data-stop="1357.265000">long term. It's been around for 40 years. It'll be</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1357.305000" data-stop="1359.087000">around for... Probably it'll outlive me.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1359.107000" data-stop="1363.373000">I don't have to worry too much about giving up on</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1363.393000" data-stop="1363.473000">it.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading">How important for you is the free software bit of Emacs?</div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1364.294000" data-stop="1371.067000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  <p>
<b>How important for you is the free software bit of Emacs?</b></p>
</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1371.387000" data-stop="1375.916000">I was on Mac when I got into Emacs. I went to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1376.437000" data-stop="1378.260000">GNU Emacs to download it and it said,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1378.481000" data-stop="1380.004000">we made this available to people on</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1380.044000" data-stop="1382.308000">proprietary systems in order to teach you to free</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1382.328000" data-stop="1382.729000">yourself.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1382.769000" data-stop="1383.691000">I was like, huh?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1383.991000" data-stop="1385.995000">I downloaded it and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1387.645000" data-stop="1389.488000">I'm now running Arch Linux.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1392.454000" data-stop="1393.556000">It definitely worked.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1393.716000" data-stop="1395.840000">Richard Stallman has downloaded himself into my</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1395.860000" data-stop="1396.001000">brain.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1396.762000" data-stop="1399.066000">How much is the free software bit of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1399.167000" data-stop="1401.030000">it important to you in using Emacs?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1401.466000" data-stop="1402.768000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I'm not a purist.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1402.908000" data-stop="1407.236000">I will happily be the interface using the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1407.276000" data-stop="1407.917000">non-free things.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1407.937000" data-stop="1409.720000">For example, when we were doing EmacsConf, the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1409.760000" data-stop="1413.326000">first few years before Whisper was around, I was</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1413.366000" data-stop="1415.750000">the one doing like, okay, fine, YouTube has this</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1416.411000" data-stop="1419.016000">subtitling thing that we can grab the stuff from.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1419.296000" data-stop="1421.059000">Yeah, it's a non-free service, but I will</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1421.099000" data-stop="1424.305000">happily take advantage of it in order to make the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1424.405000" data-stop="1426.849000">information more free, and things like that.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1426.829000" data-stop="1430.596000">I use both free and non-free things, but I love</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1430.616000" data-stop="1434.183000">the single-minded focus that a lot of people have</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1434.544000" data-stop="1436.628000">on freedom and making sure that other people</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1436.728000" data-stop="1437.570000">enjoy these rights.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1438.251000" data-stop="1439.955000">For example, in the Emacs</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1439.995000" data-stop="1442.980000">community, a surprising number refuse to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1443.281000" data-stop="1447.790000">use JavaScript because a lot of JavaScript is</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1447.850000" data-stop="1448.972000">non-free software.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1455.260000" data-stop="1457.166000">I want to make sure that my website still</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1457.206000" data-stop="1458.408000">makes sense without JavaScript.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1459.069000" data-stop="1461.092000">EmacsConf, there are ways to participate even</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1461.212000" data-stop="1463.677000">participate even without JavaScript. You can use MPV to watch</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1463.997000" data-stop="1464.598000">the stream.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1464.578000" data-stop="1466.361000">It's all free software.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1466.681000" data-stop="1468.524000">You can use IRC to chat.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1468.905000" data-stop="1470.668000">All that stuff is very important to people, and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1470.708000" data-stop="1471.309000">that's great.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1472.170000" data-stop="1474.474000">I love the fact that for a lot of people,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1474.534000" data-stop="1476.958000">they really care about making sure other people</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1477.198000" data-stop="1480.944000">can continue to enjoy these freedoms to modify</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1481.025000" data-stop="1482.587000">things and to build on it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1482.567000" data-stop="1485.170000">Every so often someone comes into the Emacs</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1485.190000" data-stop="1487.513000">community and they're like, oh yeah, I want to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1487.553000" data-stop="1489.356000">make money making packages here.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1489.376000" data-stop="1490.938000">I'm going to put my package behind a paywall.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1490.978000" data-stop="1492.680000">You've got to send me a donation in order to use it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1493.141000" data-stop="1494.602000">Then they get smacked down so hard.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1496.425000" data-stop="1498.187000">Usually the way it works is someone will then,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1498.608000" data-stop="1500.750000">you know, take a look at their README and say,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1500.770000" data-stop="1502.893000">okay, that looks vibe-coded. I can do it</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1502.933000" data-stop="1504.135000">faster and I'll do it for free.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1504.896000" data-stop="1506.558000">That's the usual response to this stuff.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1506.578000" data-stop="1508.000000">Yeah, here's the thing that you're trying to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1508.040000" data-stop="1509.081000">sell, but it's free.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1510.107000" data-stop="1511.449000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  So that never works. I was</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1511.489000" data-stop="1514.534000">struck by this. It seems to be so absolutely</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1515.094000" data-stop="1517.919000">immune to takeover by proprietary stuff.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1518.399000" data-stop="1520.543000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I mean, it's a startup</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1520.583000" data-stop="1522.726000">hustle mentality in other communities, but in</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1522.866000" data-stop="1525.210000">Emacs, it does not fly. Mostly because people are, like,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1525.270000" data-stop="1527.233000">are, like, I know the tools you're using, I can do that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1527.693000" data-stop="1528.875000">better myself.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1528.855000" data-stop="1533.361000">There are people who do get sustained by</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1533.441000" data-stop="1535.684000">donations from Emacs community members, but it</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1535.704000" data-stop="1538.207000">generally is more of a "I appreciate</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1538.247000" data-stop="1540.230000">your work and I will send you this voluntary</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1540.290000" data-stop="1543.755000">donation" instead of your paywalling your stuff</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1543.815000" data-stop="1546.799000">behind this thing, which feels very much against</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1546.839000" data-stop="1549.362000">the ethos of the Emacs community.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1549.342000" data-stop="1554.690000">It's been interesting to see the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1554.691000" data-stop="1562.563000">AI hustle "software as a service or product type" thing</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1562.564000" data-stop="1564.848000">try to infiltrate the Emacs community, and they are</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1564.968000" data-stop="1565.749000">having none of it.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1566.330000" data-stop="1566.791000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Interesting.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1567.112000" data-stop="1569.055000">Why do you think it's so resilient to that?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1569.895000" data-stop="1571.418000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Because we've had such a long</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1571.438000" data-stop="1573.764000">tradition of sharing things for free, building on</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1573.824000" data-stop="1576.831000">top of things that people have freely shared: not</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1576.911000" data-stop="1580.599000">just like free as in beer, but free as in you've got</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1580.960000" data-stop="1582.403000">the source code, you've got all the rights to do</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1582.423000" data-stop="1585.069000">whatever you want with it, including for free.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1585.268000" data-stop="1587.130000">That's baked into the community.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1587.150000" data-stop="1589.812000">Any time someone comes in and tries to say,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1590.212000" data-stop="1594.976000">oh yeah, I've got this commercial packaging of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1595.056000" data-stop="1596.618000">Emacs, it's all rights reserved, people</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1596.658000" data-stop="1599.060000">are like, yeah, there's probably a GPL</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1599.100000" data-stop="1600.921000">violation right there, so let's go.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1603.003000" data-stop="1604.444000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Cool.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading">How do you explain your passion for Emacs to non-Emacs users?</div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1604.464000" data-stop="1609.989000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong> <b>How do you explain your passion for Emacs to non-Emacs users?</b></span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1612.851000" data-stop="1615.073000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I don't usually.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1615.998000" data-stop="1622.372000">I love the fact that I can tinker with it, right?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1622.392000" data-stop="1625.238000">If it clicks for people, it clicks.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1625.559000" data-stop="1628.044000">But if it doesn't click for people and they don't</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1628.085000" data-stop="1630.209000">necessarily want or need that, then it's okay for</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1630.249000" data-stop="1631.492000">them to use something else.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1631.472000" data-stop="1634.114000">I love the fact that people are using or even</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1634.214000" data-stop="1635.776000">shifting to other editors.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1636.436000" data-stop="1638.458000">For example, we've had a couple of people</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1639.059000" data-stop="1640.720000">announce that they're leaving Emacs recently</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1640.780000" data-stop="1642.842000">because vibe coding has made it possible for them</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1642.882000" data-stop="1644.924000">to build native applications and they don't have</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1644.944000" data-stop="1646.445000">to build it on top of Emacs anymore.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1646.906000" data-stop="1650.009000">They can finally get their Vim config set up the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1650.049000" data-stop="1654.293000">way that they wanted to because the LLM can</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1654.333000" data-stop="1655.534000">generate that stuff for them.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1655.874000" data-stop="1657.996000">Whereas in Emacs, it would have been a lot easier</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1658.016000" data-stop="1659.697000">to write it themselves, but now they can do it</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1659.737000" data-stop="1661.479000">with VS Code or whatever.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1661.459000" data-stop="1664.284000">It's great because the more people are</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1664.364000" data-stop="1665.927000">experimenting with interesting ideas, even</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1666.068000" data-stop="1668.873000">outside Emacs, the more we get to steal those</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1668.973000" data-stop="1670.436000">ideas and then bring them back.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1671.037000" data-stop="1672.219000">You see a lot of this sometimes.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1672.259000" data-stop="1674.984000">You see people re-implementing cool ideas from</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1675.084000" data-stop="1677.088000">other editors or other tools.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1677.068000" data-stop="1679.311000">To me, it's totally okay if other people use</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1679.351000" data-stop="1681.495000">something else, especially if they tell me the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1681.555000" data-stop="1683.738000">cool stuff that they think only that editor can do.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1684.719000" data-stop="1686.282000">Because I'm like, that sounds</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1686.302000" data-stop="1687.383000">like an interesting feature.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1687.704000" data-stop="1688.425000">Do tell me more.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1689.006000" data-stop="1691.469000">There was an interesting talk by Jeremy Friesen</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1691.690000" data-stop="1693.933000">in either last EmacsConf or the one</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1693.953000" data-stop="1696.997000">before that, about mentoring and how he's no</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1697.058000" data-stop="1699.161000">longer trying to push people to use</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1699.281000" data-stop="1699.621000">Emacs.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1700.062000" data-stop="1702.345000">He wants to share the general workflow</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1702.385000" data-stop="1703.447000">practices he's using.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1706.180000" data-stop="1707.249000">If he's pair programming</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1707.269000" data-stop="1709.080000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong> with someone, he might say, how do you</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1711.340000" data-stop="1713.960000">jump to a specific function definition?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1714.321000" data-stop="1715.923000">They might show him something, or they might</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1715.963000" data-stop="1717.506000">realize that's a thing.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1718.047000" data-stop="1720.291000">I can go look in my editor how to do that.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1720.311000" data-stop="1721.853000">He might show, this is how I do it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1721.873000" data-stop="1722.855000">That's the general idea.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1723.396000" data-stop="1725.199000">Sometimes when people start talking workflow, then</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1726.040000" data-stop="1726.621000">talking workflow, then</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1727.521000" data-stop="1730.364000">talking workflow, then people who are not using Emacs will go, "That</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1730.384000" data-stop="1731.165000">looks really cool.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1731.285000" data-stop="1732.026000">How do I do that?" Then</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1732.086000" data-stop="1734.228000">that?" Then you send them down the path of:</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1734.428000" data-stop="1736.730000">get it installed, go through the tutorial, that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1736.770000" data-stop="1737.371000">sort of stuff.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1738.672000" data-stop="1741.095000">But it always helps to have that specific reason,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1741.635000" data-stop="1744.218000">the thing that they want to be able to do.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1744.918000" data-stop="1749.203000">For me, for example, I love the way that Org Mode</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1749.243000" data-stop="1753.667000">lets me have my notes and the code and the links.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1754.649000" data-stop="1756.393000">It's all one big thing.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1756.413000" data-stop="1758.678000">I don't have to think about, oh, okay, I have</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1758.698000" data-stop="1761.103000">to do everything in Python because that's what</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1761.444000" data-stop="1762.166000">Jupyter does.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1762.366000" data-stop="1764.491000">I can do some of it in Emacs Lisp, and I can do</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1764.531000" data-stop="1766.355000">some of it in shell scripts, and I can do some of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1766.435000" data-stop="1768.840000">it in JavaScript or Python.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1768.860000" data-stop="1771.065000">It's like all this big mess</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1771.045000" data-stop="1772.627000">Org Babel kind of thing.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1773.107000" data-stop="1776.030000">Yeah, because your brain might not be in tune with</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1776.090000" data-stop="1778.052000">all those different languages, but it works for me.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1778.712000" data-stop="1780.774000">If other people see that and they say, I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1780.814000" data-stop="1783.517000">want to do that too, then that's when you help</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1783.557000" data-stop="1785.379000">them get into Emacs.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1785.399000" data-stop="1787.821000">But aside from that, I don't talk to people in</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1787.921000" data-stop="1789.923000">elevators and say, have you heard the good news?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1791.044000" data-stop="1792.385000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  I was wondering even</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1792.425000" data-stop="1794.587000">more broadly than kind of people who are already</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1794.627000" data-stop="1795.628000">coding with a different editor.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1795.648000" data-stop="1797.390000">To tell you a story...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1797.691000" data-stop="1800.039000">My cousin is also an anthropologist. He's an</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1800.079000" data-stop="1802.508000">anthropologist in France. I've known for years</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1802.548000" data-stop="1804.053000">that he was into Linux and free software and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1804.073000" data-stop="1806.722000">stuff. When I got into Emacs, he said, you know</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1806.743000" data-stop="1808.629000">I've been doing Emacs for 10 years.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1808.710000" data-stop="1810.614000">I was like, what?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1810.634000" data-stop="1810.935000">How?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1811.115000" data-stop="1811.536000">What?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1811.556000" data-stop="1812.218000">And he'd never told me.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1812.538000" data-stop="1814.743000">I realize now, having been doing Emacs for</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1814.783000" data-stop="1817.048000">four years, I can't talk to my colleagues and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1817.108000" data-stop="1818.090000">friends about it because they</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1818.110000" data-stop="1819.433000">look over my shoulder and it's</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1819.473000" data-stop="1820.796000">like, what are you doing?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1820.816000" data-stop="1822.820000">This looks like it's from the 1980s.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1822.840000" data-stop="1825.165000">Even trying to explain to people what</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1825.286000" data-stop="1828.272000">Emacs is... I don't mean coders, I just mean people.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1832.066000" data-stop="1833.708000">My cousin said, yeah, I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1833.728000" data-stop="1835.109000">talk to people about free software all the time.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1835.189000" data-stop="1836.471000">I've never talked to anyone about Emacs.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1836.491000" data-stop="1837.652000">It's just so weird.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1839.654000" data-stop="1841.596000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I think that's why the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1841.636000" data-stop="1843.237000">community is so important, right?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1846.140000" data-stop="1847.754000">I aggregate a lot of blogs</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1847.755000" data-stop="1851.045000">on Planet Emacslife so people can bump into each other.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1851.165000" data-stop="1853.127000">There are a lot of meetups, some of which we host</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1853.267000" data-stop="1855.950000">on BigBlueButton... There are meetups, by</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1855.970000" data-stop="1856.210000">the way.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1856.691000" data-stop="1860.116000">If you check under Emacs News, there's actually a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1860.136000" data-stop="1861.197000">very active London meetup.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1863.741000" data-stop="1864.463000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  I haven't yet.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading">To what extent do people meet in person with Emacs?</div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1866.400000" data-stop="1869.431000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong> <b>To what extent do people meet in person with Emacs?</b></span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1869.471000" data-stop="1870.573000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Apparently, a lot of people meet in</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1870.613000" data-stop="1873.237000">person whenever they're lucky enough to get a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1873.297000" data-stop="1875.200000">sense that there are actually other people in</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1875.240000" data-stop="1877.304000">their general geographic location who are</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1877.324000" data-stop="1878.025000">interested in this.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1878.365000" data-stop="1880.008000">But there are also a lot of people who meet online.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1880.589000" data-stop="1884.195000">Org Meetup has a meetup every month that has about</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1884.175000" data-stop="1885.977000">20 people in it.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1886.197000" data-stop="1888.939000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong> Emacs Berlin has a meetup that's hybrid, and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1889.440000" data-stop="1891.442000">so it's both in person and online.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1892.503000" data-stop="1894.745000">There's Emacs Asia Pacific.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1894.765000" data-stop="1897.728000">There's a whole list of meetups in Emacs News,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1897.788000" data-stop="1899.429000">which is that newsletter that I do every week.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1900.731000" data-stop="1904.474000">I list upcoming events, and there's also a link</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1904.514000" data-stop="1907.157000">there to the calendar as well as to the user</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1907.177000" data-stop="1910.740000">groups page which lists by region.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1910.720000" data-stop="1915.461000">There are a lot of people getting together about</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1915.481000" data-stop="1917.490000">Emacs because a lot of times,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1918.837000" data-stop="1921.700000">you learn about Emacs by looking over someone's</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1921.861000" data-stop="1924.444000">shoulder, physical or virtual, right?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1924.684000" data-stop="1926.286000">This is how you learn about things that you would</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1926.346000" data-stop="1929.530000">not have even thought of asking an AI about.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1932.100000" data-stop="1932.674000">They're doing a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1932.754000" data-stop="1935.297000">demonstration or they're doing a video, and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1935.317000" data-stop="1937.440000">you're like, what is that thing that you just did?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1938.821000" data-stop="1940.804000">They had no plans to talk about it because it's</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1940.884000" data-stop="1942.345000">just something they take for granted.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1942.366000" data-stop="1943.887000">It's a keyword shortcut or a command.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1943.947000" data-stop="1945.269000">It's just part of the workflow.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1945.289000" data-stop="1946.511000">They don't think about it anymore.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1947.031000" data-stop="1948.573000">Or it's even as simple as</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1948.553000" data-stop="1949.355000">"What's that theme?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1949.395000" data-stop="1950.116000">What's that font?"</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1951.659000" data-stop="1954.725000">Because people can see it, can see somebody</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1954.905000" data-stop="1958.773000">doing stuff with Emacs, they get inspired to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1958.813000" data-stop="1961.699000">learn more and to adopt that into their workflow.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1962.200000" data-stop="1964.645000">That is one of the things that I love about</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1964.765000" data-stop="1966.709000">how people learn Emacs.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1966.729000" data-stop="1968.132000">It's very convivial, right?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1968.412000" data-stop="1969.414000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Yeah.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading">Learning in public</div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1971.240000" data-stop="1973.280000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong> You said the phrase earlier: <b>learning in public</b>.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1974.324000" data-stop="1976.849000">In one sense, that sounds scary. Learning</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1976.889000" data-stop="1978.772000">in public, making mistakes in</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1978.832000" data-stop="1980.736000">public and stuff. You said it as a really</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1980.776000" data-stop="1982.660000">good thing. Tell me more about learning in</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="1982.700000" data-stop="1983.201000">public.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1984.025000" data-stop="1986.069000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  My favorite kinds of blog posts is</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1986.109000" data-stop="1988.173000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong> when I'm proud of myself for figuring</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1988.213000" data-stop="1989.075000">out something clever.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1989.495000" data-stop="1990.998000">Like, okay, here's this function</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1991.018000" data-stop="1995.267000">function to do this thing. I had to figure</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1995.307000" data-stop="1995.527000">it out.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1995.587000" data-stop="1996.349000">It was hard.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1996.429000" data-stop="1998.272000">It took like a day or two to do it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="1998.693000" data-stop="2000.316000">Then someone comes by in the comments and says,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2000.497000" data-stop="2002.320000">oh yeah, that's built in.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2003.752000" data-stop="2005.073000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Yeah, I've been there.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2005.233000" data-stop="2008.136000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  "You just change this variable."</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2008.176000" data-stop="2009.417000">It happens so often.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2010.058000" data-stop="2012.760000">The reason is because Emacs is so big, right?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2015.580000" data-stop="2019.127000">There are variables and functions that I would not think of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2019.187000" data-stop="2019.767000">coming across.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2019.787000" data-stop="2021.449000">Maybe I'm not using the right words to search for</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2021.469000" data-stop="2022.130000">them, or whatever.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2022.570000" data-stop="2024.512000">If you add to that the entire package</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2024.552000" data-stop="2027.395000">ecosystem and as well as the things that are not</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2027.435000" data-stop="2029.477000">people's packaged code, snippets</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2029.537000" data-stop="2031.058000">in people's config and whatnot...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2031.038000" data-stop="2034.761000">Chances are someone has come across the same</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2034.821000" data-stop="2036.743000">problem that I'm thinking about and has come up</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2036.783000" data-stop="2038.965000">with a more elegant solution for it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2038.985000" data-stop="2040.706000">If I'm not using the same words, I might not</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2040.766000" data-stop="2041.147000">find it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2041.527000" data-stop="2042.768000">One of the things that I like about large</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2042.828000" data-stop="2045.190000">language models is that even if I use my words,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2045.350000" data-stop="2048.533000">sometimes it will suggest something that does</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2048.572000" data-stop="2049.434000">that translation, right?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2049.494000" data-stop="2051.695000">It's an <b>approximate search</b>.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2051.876000" data-stop="2054.418000">But even if I don't have that, if I'm writing</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2054.478000" data-stop="2057.440000">about something, then I have that opportunity for</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2057.540000" data-stop="2060.623000">somebody to say, oh yeah, you should check this out.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2060.603000" data-stop="2063.770000">Or several years later, someone might also say,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2064.311000" data-stop="2066.175000">that is exactly what I was trying to do.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2066.215000" data-stop="2067.898000">I'm taking your code.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2067.938000" data-stop="2070.402000">I've built something on top of it to make it even better.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2070.944000" data-stop="2073.911000">For me, writing about what I'm learning</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2073.951000" data-stop="2078.159000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong> with Emacs</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2079.402000" data-stop="2083.168000">is a great way to learn even more from the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2083.208000" data-stop="2083.630000">community.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2083.771000" data-stop="2085.534000">I keep trying to convince people, yes, please,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2085.634000" data-stop="2087.478000">even if you're a beginner, write about what</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2087.498000" data-stop="2089.922000">you're learning, because it's a great way to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2090.464000" data-stop="2092.628000">crystallize that knowledge for yourself,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2092.668000" data-stop="2094.672000">become part of the community and part of the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2094.732000" data-stop="2096.996000">conversations, and learn about things that you</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2097.036000" data-stop="2099.301000">would not have thought of asking about.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2099.416000" data-stop="2101.200000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Well, I'm following your example.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2101.220000" data-stop="2103.205000">I'm trying to write my config in Org Babel at the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2103.245000" data-stop="2108.839000">moment, partly as a way to say, wait a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2108.859000" data-stop="2110.784000">minute, what is this thing?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2110.804000" data-stop="2111.346000">How does it work?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2111.366000" data-stop="2112.569000">It's so useful.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2112.970000" data-stop="2114.574000">But one thing I was wondering, and it's partly</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2114.614000" data-stop="2116.378000">also just a practical question,</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading">Disclaimers</div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2116.820000" data-stop="2119.242000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong> I've never tried to contribute or to post</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2119.302000" data-stop="2123.040000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong> anything on anything, partly because <b>I worry that my stuff is crap</b>.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2144.080000" data-stop="2145.626000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  If you put a disclaimer,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2147.440000" data-stop="2149.395000">that way they know they're reading it for the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2149.475000" data-stop="2153.183000">idea, but not necessarily the Emacs Lisp style.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2153.163000" data-stop="2155.587000">That's fine with me too.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2156.188000" data-stop="2157.851000">There are a lot of people who are like, you know,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2158.372000" data-stop="2159.795000">it's got too many emojis in it,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2159.835000" data-stop="2160.816000">I'm not going to read that.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2160.897000" data-stop="2162.459000">I'm going to focus my time reading something else</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2162.499000" data-stop="2164.162000">that's been handcrafted and all that stuff.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2164.182000" data-stop="2164.924000">That's fine too.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2165.344000" data-stop="2166.987000">There's room for all sorts of people and all</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2167.027000" data-stop="2168.590000">sorts of approaches to this.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2178.040000" data-stop="2180.886000">Sometimes even just the idea of something</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2181.647000" data-stop="2184.511000">is already valuable, that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2184.611000" data-stop="2187.755000">somebody thought of saying, hey, my workflow</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2187.795000" data-stop="2190.679000">would be better if it could just do this.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2193.924000" data-stop="2195.466000">If there's a screenshot, even better, right?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2195.486000" data-stop="2196.408000">You can see how it works.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2196.448000" data-stop="2198.671000">Screenshot or video or animated GIF.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2199.052000" data-stop="2201.396000">Because then they can go and write the code that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2201.416000" data-stop="2202.477000">they would have to do anyway.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2202.537000" data-stop="2204.180000">Because of course, they've got their own</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2204.240000" data-stop="2205.342000">personalized setup.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2205.702000" data-stop="2209.248000">You know, the code that you write will not mesh</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2209.708000" data-stop="2211.992000">perfectly with their particular setup.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2212.782000" data-stop="2215.906000">There's this whole… There's this Lisp curse</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2216.086000" data-stop="2218.850000">essay that's sort of related to…</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2218.870000" data-stop="2220.092000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  I was going to ask you about that.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2221.093000" data-stop="2224.918000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  We've all got our ecosystems of our</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2225.098000" data-stop="2228.062000">own code and absorbing something into it is</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2228.102000" data-stop="2228.743000">sometimes hard.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2228.783000" data-stop="2231.246000">But if you start with even just the idea that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2231.327000" data-stop="2233.830000">somebody else has written about, whether or not</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2233.870000" data-stop="2235.752000">you take their actual code for it or use their</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2235.792000" data-stop="2238.716000">code as a building block, that is already useful</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2238.796000" data-stop="2240.038000">and interesting.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2240.018000" data-stop="2243.783000">Again, you don't have to be Bozhidar Batsov or</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2243.803000" data-stop="2247.068000">Omar Antolin to be able to contribute at that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2247.148000" data-stop="2247.449000">level.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2247.529000" data-stop="2249.071000">Even at the beginner level, you could just be</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2249.091000" data-stop="2251.935000">like, I just need to do this thing and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2251.975000" data-stop="2253.998000">it's driving me crazy to do it manually all the time.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2254.739000" data-stop="2257.062000">Then I'm like, you can do that non-manually?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2257.283000" data-stop="2259.546000">Oh yeah, we should do that.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2260.387000" data-stop="2261.830000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Cool.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2261.931000" data-stop="2265.198000">Just to come back to the question about</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2265.239000" data-stop="2266.862000">talking to other people about Emacs, do you ever</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2266.923000" data-stop="2268.867000">talk to people who are not programmers?</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading">Do you ever talk to family and friends about Emacs?</div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2268.927000" data-stop="2271.253000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong> <b>Do you ever talk to family and friends about Emacs?</b></span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2271.393000" data-stop="2273.157000">Do you ever have to explain what this thing is</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2273.177000" data-stop="2275.543000">that you're doing or do you just not?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2275.912000" data-stop="2278.516000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Well, my kiddo is 10, and she's</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2278.556000" data-stop="2280.158000">like, can you set me up a kid Emacs?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2280.178000" data-stop="2281.580000">Because she sees me like... Yes!</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2282.140000" data-stop="2284.403000">Clearly something of great interest to me.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2284.423000" data-stop="2285.225000">I said, maybe.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2285.245000" data-stop="2290.572000">She does a little bit of vibe coding with Claude as</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2290.612000" data-stop="2292.214000">she generates interactive stories.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2292.875000" data-stop="2295.118000">She was trying to track</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2295.158000" data-stop="2297.541000">down a syntax error at some point.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2297.581000" data-stop="2299.564000">I was like, can I just install Emacs on your</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2299.604000" data-stop="2302.648000">computer so I can do... And she said no.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2302.668000" data-stop="2305.632000">My husband uses Vim.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2306.497000" data-stop="2311.647000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong> Although he did get very interested in</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2311.707000" data-stop="2313.430000">Org Mode at some point, so he found the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2313.450000" data-stop="2315.654000">appropriate Vim plug-in for it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2317.057000" data-stop="2318.299000">That was amusing.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2320.443000" data-stop="2323.244000">I don't talk to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2323.344000" data-stop="2324.726000">people about editor choices.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2325.647000" data-stop="2327.790000">I just do the stuff that I do. When I write about it,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2327.810000" data-stop="2331.275000">sometimes people will come across it, again,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2331.315000" data-stop="2333.017000">coming from completely different backgrounds.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2333.037000" data-stop="2335.741000">They'll be like, oh yeah, I also need to edit transcripts.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2335.761000" data-stop="2337.143000">What is this Emacs thing?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2337.663000" data-stop="2340.727000">And I'm like, well, it's a very long road, but</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2340.787000" data-stop="2342.029000">it's a lot of fun and it's worth it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2342.069000" data-stop="2343.832000">If you do want to get into it, here's some ways</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2343.852000" data-stop="2344.492000">to get started.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2344.573000" data-stop="2345.013000">I don't know.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2345.494000" data-stop="2346.996000">But you can look at the videos first to see</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2347.056000" data-stop="2349.079000">whether it might be something that resonates with you.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2349.779000" data-stop="2349.980000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Yeah.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2350.340000" data-stop="2350.881000">No, I'm the same.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2350.901000" data-stop="2352.443000">I'm very cautious.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2352.710000" data-stop="2353.491000">I've seen that.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2353.511000" data-stop="2354.732000">The learning curve thing is so cool.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2355.513000" data-stop="2360.158000">My kids are like, your</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2360.198000" data-stop="2362.701000">computer used to be so pretty when it was a Mac</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2362.741000" data-stop="2364.282000">and now it just looks really ugly.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2364.383000" data-stop="2366.084000">I'm like, oh, if you knew.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2367.065000" data-stop="2368.887000">It's so much more beautiful now, but never mind.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2370.729000" data-stop="2371.010000">Cool.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2371.310000" data-stop="2373.092000">We've talked a lot about AI actually already.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading">Do you ever use AI in chatbots for anything else?</div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2373.692000" data-stop="2376.996000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong> <b>Do you ever use AI in chatbots for anything else?</b></span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2377.820000" data-stop="2379.923000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  Well, I'm learning French at the moment.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2380.083000" data-stop="2383.448000">In this case, the kind of the regression to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2383.468000" data-stop="2386.572000">the mean that AI does is very useful for me</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2386.632000" data-stop="2390.438000">because I need to know, what is the common word choice here?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2390.718000" data-stop="2393.121000">How do I get the grammar to do the thing?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2393.142000" data-stop="2396.446000">I don't really want to spend an hour of a</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2397.047000" data-stop="2399.490000">relatively expensive tutor's time picking apart</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2399.611000" data-stop="2404.297000">my subject-verb agreement or my nouns</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2404.317000" data-stop="2407.181000">agreeing in plurality with the verbs and stuff</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2407.201000" data-stop="2407.742000">like that.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2407.722000" data-stop="2413.680000">It's reasonably acceptable to use large language</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2413.720000" data-stop="2415.686000">models for language feedback.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2415.706000" data-stop="2417.592000">That makes sense.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2418.174000" data-stop="2420.601000">In terms of coding,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2420.952000" data-stop="2421.893000">I'm not there yet.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2423.616000" data-stop="2428.822000">Quite a few people are very enthusiastic about it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2428.943000" data-stop="2431.586000">Even in Emacs, some people are like, "I don't write</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2431.626000" data-stop="2432.487000">my code anymore.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2432.507000" data-stop="2434.009000">I just vibe the whole thing."</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2434.730000" data-stop="2436.753000">I love the way that it gets a lot of people</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2436.833000" data-stop="2439.036000">to make things that they would not otherwise have</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2439.076000" data-stop="2442.100000">the time or effort or experience to do,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2442.080000" data-stop="2445.446000">but on the other hand also, it hallucinates</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2445.466000" data-stop="2446.908000">a lot of things. It gets me excited:</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2446.928000" data-stop="2448.611000">oh there's a variable or</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2448.631000" data-stop="2450.594000">function specifically for this? No! It doesn't</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2450.694000" data-stop="2455.041000">exist. I can make it exist, so it's a little less</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2455.081000" data-stop="2457.245000">frustrating for me, because I can say, you know,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2457.826000" data-stop="2460.510000">that does make sense. I can write that. I can fill</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2460.550000" data-stop="2462.613000">in the blanks for it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2462.614000" data-stop="2471.051000">But 9 times out of 10, I'll be like, no, no, go back</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2471.111000" data-stop="2472.653000">and do the proper search.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2473.894000" data-stop="2477.379000">One out of 10 times, it'll tell me, oh yeah,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2478.119000" data-stop="2479.681000">there is this function and it will exist,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2479.701000" data-stop="2480.823000">exist, then I'm like, okay, great,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2480.923000" data-stop="2482.244000">I want to use that, because I wouldn't have</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2482.324000" data-stop="2483.346000">otherwise come across it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2484.407000" data-stop="2486.610000">But I cannot use it to generate a lot of code</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2486.670000" data-stop="2489.873000">because I get this urge to just rewrite things to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2490.094000" data-stop="2490.955000">fit the way I want.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2491.015000" data-stop="2494.272000">I just use it like… it suggests ideas.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2494.332000" data-stop="2496.742000">It acts kind of like a search engine that gets</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2496.802000" data-stop="2497.887000">things wrong most of the time.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2498.429000" data-stop="2499.835000">I'll just take the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2499.956000" data-stop="2502.225000">interesting parts of that and do it myself.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2503.522000" data-stop="2509.450000">Aside from that, I haven't really dug into it to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2509.470000" data-stop="2510.972000">the extent that other people have.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2511.793000" data-stop="2516.159000">I am happy to take a step back and see how this</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2516.279000" data-stop="2519.563000">all shakes out because with the shake-up in</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2519.603000" data-stop="2522.908000">pricing and all the externalized costs that are</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2522.948000" data-stop="2527.854000">slowly being factored in, I'm not going to build</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2527.894000" data-stop="2528.876000">a house of cards on it.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2529.216000" data-stop="2531.419000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Yeah, that's very wise, I think.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2532.479000" data-stop="2534.182000">How do you feel about</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2535.384000" data-stop="2537.147000">the fact that these models have been trained on</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2537.568000" data-stop="2539.560000">all these free conversations?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2543.020000" data-stop="2544.059000">They just suck up all</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2544.079000" data-stop="2547.504000">this stuff that people have been doing for 40 years.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2547.524000" data-stop="2549.087000">Is that a problem in and of itself?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2549.337000" data-stop="2551.280000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  It's interesting in the particular</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2551.320000" data-stop="2552.202000">case of Emacs.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2552.462000" data-stop="2555.547000">As I mentioned, the vast majority of Emacs Lisp</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2555.767000" data-stop="2558.532000">is released under either the GPL or the MIT</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2558.592000" data-stop="2562.278000">license or even public domain because people in</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2562.358000" data-stop="2566.184000">Emacs really care about sharing stuff and they</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2566.224000" data-stop="2567.226000">want other people to do it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2567.266000" data-stop="2569.930000">It's not like, oh, we've got this proprietary</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2569.990000" data-stop="2571.953000">code and it's been stolen away from us, it's</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2571.933000" data-stop="2573.816000">us, it's not available for other people.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2573.836000" data-stop="2577.603000">The fact that we're treating AI-generated</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2577.643000" data-stop="2580.868000">code as non-copyrightable, it's okay that it's</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2581.469000" data-stop="2582.371000">sort of out there.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2582.731000" data-stop="2584.735000">It would be nice to be able to say, hey, this</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2584.755000" data-stop="2586.718000">stuff is GPL, so if you're going to build on it,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2587.820000" data-stop="2590.083000">please share it under the same licenses.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2591.145000" data-stop="2594.090000">But in terms of the way that many people use it</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2594.170000" data-stop="2596.354000">for personal configuration and learning,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2596.334000" data-stop="2597.775000">I'm okay with that.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2597.855000" data-stop="2599.637000">I know that other people in the community have</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2599.717000" data-stop="2602.019000">stronger stances, and that's also okay.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2603.161000" data-stop="2606.103000">Because there's no attribution, there's no link</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2606.143000" data-stop="2606.884000">back to the person.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2606.904000" data-stop="2611.128000">The licensing doesn't require [lots of] attribution.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2612.209000" data-stop="2617.034000">You don't have to say, oh yeah, this config</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2617.074000" data-stop="2619.016000">was inspired by these people and at these links.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2619.036000" data-stop="2620.778000">You don't have to do that,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2621.078000" data-stop="2623.180000">but it would be nice to be able to follow those</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2623.240000" data-stop="2624.181000">links back to the people.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2624.581000" data-stop="2625.362000">That would be nice.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2626.439000" data-stop="2632.605000">The ability for more people to learn from this</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2632.706000" data-stop="2635.188000">stuff is good.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2635.669000" data-stop="2637.751000">If we can encourage them to share what</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2637.811000" data-stop="2640.374000">they're figuring out with other people, that's</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2640.414000" data-stop="2641.375000">also good.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2641.395000" data-stop="2643.617000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  So is the problem less about kind</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2643.657000" data-stop="2645.759000">of taking intellectual property and more about</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading">Not breaking connections to people</div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2647.161000" data-stop="2649.723000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong> <b>breaking connections to people</b> or like breaking</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2649.784000" data-stop="2651.505000">these traceable connections to other people in</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2651.545000" data-stop="2652.126000">the community?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2652.646000" data-stop="2654.488000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  That's the part that I'm interested</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2654.608000" data-stop="2657.131000">in and care about, because I feel the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2657.191000" data-stop="2659.434000">community experience of Emacs is very interesting.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2660.315000" data-stop="2662.898000">All the other stuff, there are people</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2662.978000" data-stop="2665.421000">who are far smarter than me and have focused on...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2665.441000" data-stop="2666.702000">This is above my pay grade, right?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2666.742000" data-stop="2669.686000">Actually working out intellectual property,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2670.587000" data-stop="2671.308000">what that means.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2673.310000" data-stop="2674.972000">A lot of people think about copyright and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2675.012000" data-stop="2677.455000">copyleft and that stuff.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2677.435000" data-stop="2679.979000">I will leave that to them to sort all of the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2680.139000" data-stop="2681.321000">ethics after that one.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2681.341000" data-stop="2684.467000">I just care about making sure people can feel</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2684.487000" data-stop="2686.149000">like they're learning, feel like they're welcome,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2686.790000" data-stop="2689.976000">and can find the ways forward both with</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2689.996000" data-stop="2692.560000">assistance of large language models if they want</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2692.600000" data-stop="2698.109000">to, but also connecting with real people who they</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2698.129000" data-stop="2698.970000">can learn from too.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2699.592000" data-stop="2701.114000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Yeah, super.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2702.275000" data-stop="2704.099000">I think that's sort of the questions I had,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2705.362000" data-stop="2705.642000">really.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2705.662000" data-stop="2706.420000">I'm sure</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2707.900000" data-stop="2708.829000">I'm going to have a million other</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2708.930000" data-stop="2709.270000">questions.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2709.290000" data-stop="2710.533000">I might email you back about this.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2713.379000" data-stop="2714.682000">Did you have any questions for me?</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading">Education and ethics and eureka</div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2715.910000" data-stop="2719.757000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I love now knowing that you were</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2720.178000" data-stop="2722.502000">writing your manifesto with that experience of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2722.643000" data-stop="2724.847000">being an Emacs user in mind, because the way that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2724.887000" data-stop="2727.912000">the <b>education and ethics and eureka</b> was like,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2728.333000" data-stop="2732.821000">that actually lines up precisely with the Emacs</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2732.942000" data-stop="2734.545000">community and what it's like and what we care</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2734.585000" data-stop="2735.286000">about.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2735.266000" data-stop="2739.111000">I would love to explore this in future</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2739.191000" data-stop="2742.175000">conversations and see how we can help people</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2743.316000" data-stop="2744.558000">navigate this time.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2744.578000" data-stop="2748.864000">There's a lot of froth about AI, and the business</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2748.904000" data-stop="2750.506000">world is losing their heads over this</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2750.626000" data-stop="2752.048000">collectively.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2754.251000" data-stop="2758.136000">The programmers in industry either find it</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2758.536000" data-stop="2760.799000">useful but also, in general, seem to have</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2760.839000" data-stop="2763.703000">a fairly worse experience.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2763.683000" data-stop="2767.508000">This is not where we should be using this.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2768.288000" data-stop="2770.671000">This is not how this is supposed to be turning</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2770.811000" data-stop="2770.972000">out.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2771.332000" data-stop="2774.356000">It should not be leading to more unhappiness, but</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2774.416000" data-stop="2775.817000">it is.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2777.380000" data-stop="2777.880000">It would be</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2777.920000" data-stop="2782.606000">interesting to sort out both in the society</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2782.906000" data-stop="2785.048000">level, but also in the individual level, as people</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2785.089000" data-stop="2786.350000">make their own choices about</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2786.600000" data-stop="2789.565000">what to use and how much to use it for, and also</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2790.126000" data-stop="2792.891000">the impact, even if they're not making those</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2792.911000" data-stop="2794.834000">choices themselves.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2795.355000" data-stop="2799.922000">I think the general sense now, for at least Emacs</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2799.962000" data-stop="2802.406000">and Org Mode, is "we're not going to accept</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2803.348000" data-stop="2805.391000">LLM-generated contributions because we've got to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2805.411000" data-stop="2809.518000">have a person who can stand behind the code."</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2810.340000" data-stop="2814.427000">We so far have been safe from the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2815.248000" data-stop="2818.574000">inundation of generated pull requests that are</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2818.634000" data-stop="2820.717000">plaguing other open source projects.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2821.298000" data-stop="2822.761000">It's definitely something to watch out for.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2823.322000" data-stop="2824.660000">But there is some tension.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2825.328000" data-stop="2828.772000">People are proud of their vibe-coded projects,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2828.792000" data-stop="2830.714000">but on the other hand, people are like, well, it</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2830.754000" data-stop="2833.378000">takes 5 minutes or 15 minutes to generate this,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2833.938000" data-stop="2838.183000">and because it's not really maintainable, people</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2838.223000" data-stop="2840.566000">will lose interest in it after their 15 minutes</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2840.646000" data-stop="2843.590000">of fame on Reddit with their nice screenshots and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2843.650000" data-stop="2844.050000">all that.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2844.591000" data-stop="2846.693000">It's not going to keep moving forward.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2851.100000" data-stop="2852.280000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Is that kind of like a…</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2853.104000" data-stop="2855.230000">version of the Curse of Lisp written large? Everyone's</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2855.310000" data-stop="2856.794000">just going to write their own programs</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2857.656000" data-stop="2860.965000">at home and no one's going to be talking to each</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="2861.005000" data-stop="2861.386000">other anymore.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2862.028000" data-stop="2867.603000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  It is very similar to that. that.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2870.047000" data-stop="2871.310000">It can be a problem.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2871.691000" data-stop="2873.154000">It can be an opportunity.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2874.217000" data-stop="2876.663000">It's not one or the other yet.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2876.683000" data-stop="2879.149000">We're figuring out as a community and as</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2879.209000" data-stop="2883.539000">individuals how to navigate this.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2883.660000" data-stop="2886.527000">We have this long history of people not actually</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2886.567000" data-stop="2887.549000">being able to adopt</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2887.529000" data-stop="2889.392000">to adopt someone else's code off the shelf.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2889.472000" data-stop="2892.117000">It's amazing when someone actually puts together</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2892.177000" data-stop="2895.342000">a package that can cut across a large variety of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2895.462000" data-stop="2896.023000">use cases.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2896.063000" data-stop="2897.746000">It takes a lot of work to get there, but things</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2897.786000" data-stop="2902.354000">like Magit and Org Mode, how do these things</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2902.454000" data-stop="2903.496000">happen?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2903.830000" data-stop="2905.313000">Yeah, it's fantastic.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2906.860000" data-stop="2908.899000">I love the fact that we can look at things</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2908.979000" data-stop="2918.856000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong> like consult and vertico...</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2918.876000" data-stop="2920.739000">The fact that they can work for a lot of people</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2920.880000" data-stop="2921.481000">is amazing.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2921.521000" data-stop="2925.147000">It's actually pretty rare in the Emacs community.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2925.127000" data-stop="2929.355000">But for the most part, we are in our little</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2929.415000" data-stop="2932.501000">fiefdoms and we have to make an effort to do that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2932.562000" data-stop="2933.884000">kind of connection.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2934.145000" data-stop="2936.449000">Whether or not the other person is using</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2936.509000" data-stop="2938.193000">vibe-coded code doesn't matter that much.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2938.473000" data-stop="2940.657000">There's still that barrier. Higher barrier if</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2940.677000" data-stop="2942.381000">you're dealing with vibe code because they don't</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2942.441000" data-stop="2944.765000">understand it and you don't understand it and the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2944.785000" data-stop="2946.088000">code is hard to read.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2946.507000" data-stop="2953.739000">The ideas can be transmitted over blog posts and videos.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2954.340000" data-stop="2957.385000">But at the same time, the fact that more people</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2957.886000" data-stop="2960.830000">like you can use this to start to experience the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2960.890000" data-stop="2963.635000">power of Emacs, the customizability of it, and</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2963.675000" data-stop="2966.760000">can then go on to imagine, hey, is this what</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2966.820000" data-stop="2967.802000">software could be?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2968.082000" data-stop="2969.164000">Can it be personal?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2969.625000" data-stop="2970.666000">Can it be malleable?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2971.608000" data-stop="2972.970000">Can I say,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2972.950000" data-stop="2976.576000">"No company is going to anticipate this particular</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2976.656000" data-stop="2979.400000">need, but I can make it for myself."?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2979.420000" data-stop="2980.822000">I think that's really worth it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2980.842000" data-stop="2983.266000">If the tools will help us get there, and if</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2983.306000" data-stop="2989.836000">we can find our own balance of ethics that are</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2990.337000" data-stop="2992.420000">okay with this... Some people might say, no,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2992.620000" data-stop="2994.664000">definitely not for me, even if it gives me the power.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2994.724000" data-stop="2996.527000">Some people were like, I just want to get</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2996.547000" data-stop="2997.248000">this stuff working.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2997.308000" data-stop="2998.029000">That's cool, too.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="2998.570000" data-stop="3000.713000">We get to see how that all works out.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3001.216000" data-stop="3001.677000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  It's interesting.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3001.897000" data-stop="3004.001000">I've written this paper for which I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3004.062000" data-stop="3006.627000">gave a talk in Oxford a couple of weeks ago</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3006.787000" data-stop="3010.234000">about this, really for anthropologists. It's</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3010.294000" data-stop="3011.757000">anthropologists. It's very interesting that a lot of the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3011.777000" data-stop="3013.480000">things we were talking about today, I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3014.222000" data-stop="3015.664000">thought that might be the case on some of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3015.685000" data-stop="3016.226000">these things.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3016.246000" data-stop="3019.512000">It's partly thinking about the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3020.723000" data-stop="3024.691000">way in which AI, ChatGPT, whatever, kind of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3024.731000" data-stop="3026.655000">interferes, becomes like a broker between the</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3026.695000" data-stop="3028.398000">community and the individual.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3028.438000" data-stop="3033.099000">So the good side of it is that</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3033.100000" data-stop="3034.590000">you're never going to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3034.650000" data-stop="3037.763000">be told to go and read the manual, right?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3037.764000" data-stop="3039.397000">It's always going to say, "Yeah, sure,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3039.398000" data-stop="3041.364000">that's great." But the bad thing is,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3041.365000" data-stop="3042.680000">you're never going to go and read the manual.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3042.681000" data-stop="3044.714000">That's the problem, right?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3044.715000" data-stop="3046.813000">But what I said at the end of it</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3046.814000" data-stop="3048.047000">and I don't know whether this resonates</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3048.048000" data-stop="3051.214000">at all, but I said now that I'm becoming aware</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3051.215000" data-stop="3052.464000">that this is a problem,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3052.465000" data-stop="3054.463000">the paradox that I got into</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3054.464000" data-stop="3055.314000">Emacs for the community</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3055.315000" data-stop="3057.380000">and yet, in a way, I'm being moved</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3057.381000" data-stop="3060.380000">away from the community.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3060.381000" data-stop="3062.458000">Increasingly, now,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3063.147000" data-stop="3065.874000">I will ask not "write this code for me"</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3065.994000" data-stop="3068.220000">but "explain to me why this code doesn't work" or</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3069.062000" data-stop="3070.726000">"explain to me why my problem could be done</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3070.746000" data-stop="3073.272000">differently," and even more than that, not even</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3073.352000" data-stop="3076.440000">"explain to me this" but "suggest to me how I could</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3076.520000" data-stop="3077.663000">post this on a forum."</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3078.132000" data-stop="3082.198000">I'm a bit worried about posting on a forum in</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3082.239000" data-stop="3083.741000">case someone turns around and says, that's stupid.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3083.781000" data-stop="3087.627000">Claude or someone can say,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3088.328000" data-stop="3089.811000">if you write it like that, some people might find</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3089.851000" data-stop="3090.331000">it interesting.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3091.433000" data-stop="3093.897000">Does that feel like a different kind of use of AI maybe?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3093.978000" data-stop="3097.622000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  It does, and I encourage the more</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3097.702000" data-stop="3098.864000">reflective use of it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3099.324000" data-stop="3101.407000">For example, you might say, instead of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3101.467000" data-stop="3103.769000">generating this code, you might say, can you help</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3103.830000" data-stop="3105.972000">me figure out what it is that I actually want to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3106.052000" data-stop="3106.973000">have in my workflow?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3107.234000" data-stop="3109.857000">Can you ask me questions to help me figure out</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3110.357000" data-stop="3112.880000">how to do this or how to break it down into</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3112.940000" data-stop="3113.781000">smaller tasks?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3114.302000" data-stop="3116.284000">Then that might be a more useful way of doing it.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3120.269000" data-stop="3122.312000">Sometimes people respond better when something is</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3122.432000" data-stop="3123.954000">asking them questions.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3126.217000" data-stop="3130.603000">That is possibly an interesting use of AI.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3132.106000" data-stop="3132.466000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Amazing.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3132.967000" data-stop="3134.269000">Sacha, thank you so much for your time.</span> <p></p><div class="transcript-heading">Future conversations</div><p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3134.489000" data-stop="3138.635000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong> Having had this conversation, do you think there's matter here</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3138.675000" data-stop="3140.357000">for some kind of live stream or something, maybe</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3140.397000" data-stop="3141.919000">with other people who want to talk about this stuff?</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3143.624000" data-stop="3145.508000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  In fact, if you wanted to take this</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3145.568000" data-stop="3147.792000">recording and plop it somewhere public, I am</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3147.813000" data-stop="3148.534000">totally fine with that.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3157.780000" data-stop="3160.037000">Learning out loud is how we have these</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3160.097000" data-stop="3162.342000">conversations grow, right?</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3164.960000" data-stop="3169.271000">The conversation is like this brain dump of ideas, and if we</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3169.331000" data-stop="3171.694000">want to start unpacking those ideas and exploring</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3171.774000" data-stop="3174.577000">them through all the multifaceted perspectives</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3174.637000" data-stop="3177.080000">that we have in the Emacs community, other</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3177.200000" data-stop="3179.343000">anthropologists or people who are interested in</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3179.363000" data-stop="3182.507000">the philosophy of it, there's people who</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3182.487000" data-stop="3186.052000">have so much deep experience in things that I</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3186.112000" data-stop="3186.953000">have no idea.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3186.994000" data-stop="3189.517000">I would love for them to be able to say,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3189.537000" data-stop="3191.981000">let's take this facet of this</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3192.021000" data-stop="3194.705000">conversation and build on it and explore that one.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3195.225000" data-stop="3198.009000">I am totally okay with both sharing this</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3198.090000" data-stop="3200.633000">conversation, if you want to, as well as having</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3200.653000" data-stop="3204.178000">other conversations that other people might be</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3204.218000" data-stop="3206.081000">able to ripple out from.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3206.482000" data-stop="3206.882000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Fantastic.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3224.557000" data-stop="3227.060000">I mentioned to Protesilaos that we're going to</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3227.080000" data-stop="3228.623000">have this chat, and he said, you know, if you want</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3228.643000" data-stop="3231.467000">to at some point organize a discussion over this</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3231.507000" data-stop="3233.970000">kind of stuff, he'd be very happy to be involved.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3236.940000" data-stop="3239.097000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  I've been experimenting with making myself ask</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3239.117000" data-stop="3239.778000">people for help.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3241.380000" data-stop="3242.922000">Prot has coaching sessions.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3246.567000" data-stop="3249.091000">If our schedules can line up, then I can schedule</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3249.151000" data-stop="3250.232000">a three-way conversation.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3250.313000" data-stop="3251.374000">It can be live and we can</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3251.354000" data-stop="3253.915000">build on the ideas that you might have</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3253.916000" data-stop="3255.881000">or follow-up questions that you might have,</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3255.882000" data-stop="3259.148000">and then we can see if other people do as well.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3259.149000" data-stop="3260.948000">So that could be good.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3271.840000" data-stop="3271.982000">I'm looking forward to hearing about your insights.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3271.983000" data-stop="3275.632000">I would love to see where this goes.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3275.633000" data-stop="3278.188000">I think the Emacs community is definitely worth studying.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3278.371000" data-stop="3282.797000">I think that there are insights here that you</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3282.837000" data-stop="3285.641000">might not otherwise come across in more</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3285.821000" data-stop="3289.687000">specialized, more focused... Like, just developers or</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3289.727000" data-stop="3292.250000">whatever, or more focused on closed source.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3292.270000" data-stop="3294.393000">There's something interesting about this mix of</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3294.434000" data-stop="3297.538000">Emacs and AI and plain text and all that stuff.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3297.999000" data-stop="3299.240000">I would love to see where this goes.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3299.941000" data-stop="3300.322000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Amazing.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3300.702000" data-stop="3301.303000">Thank you very much.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3301.884000" data-stop="3302.244000"><strong class="speaker-name">Sacha:</strong>  All right.</span> <span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Sacha" data-start="3302.485000" data-stop="3302.765000">Bye.</span> <p></p><span class="audio-time caption" data-speaker="Matei" data-start="3303.006000" data-stop="3303.366000"><strong class="speaker-name">Matei:</strong>  Bye.</span></div>
<p></p>


</details>

<p>
If you want to chat about Emacs and AI, you can <a href="mailto:mc288@cam.ac.uk">e-mail Matei</a> or check out <a href="https://www.candea.org/">Matei Candea | Anthropology</a>.
</p>
<div><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/transcript-of-chat-with-matei-candea-about-emacs-and-ai/index.org">View Org source for this post</a></div>
<p>You can <a href="mailto:sacha@sachachua.com?subject=Comment%20on%20https%3A%2F%2Fsachachua.com%2Fblog%2F2026%2F06%2Ftranscript-of-chat-with-matei-candea-about-emacs-and-ai%2F&body=Name%20you%20want%20to%20be%20credited%20by%20(if%20any)%3A%20%0AMessage%3A%20%0ACan%20I%20share%20your%20comment%20so%20other%20people%20can%20learn%20from%20it%3F%20Yes%2FNo%0A">e-mail me at sacha@sachachua.com</a>.</p>]]></description>
		</item><item>
		<title>Emacs Carnival May 2026 wrap-up: "May I recommend..."</title>
		<link>https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/05/emacs-carnival-may-2026-may-i-recommend/</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sacha Chua]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2026 16:50:38 GMT</pubDate>
    <category>emacs</category>
<category>community</category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/05/emacs-carnival-may-2026-may-i-recommend/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<div class="update" id="orgf9d8e3a">
<p>
<span class="timestamp-wrapper"><time class="timestamp" datetime="2026-06-01">[2026-06-01 Mon]</time></span>: Thanks to everyone who participated! I've included the links below.
</p>

</div>

<p>
It's May and I like puns, so I'm going to suggest <b><a href="https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/CarnivalMay2026">"May I
recommend&hellip;"</a></b> as our <a href="https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Carnival">Emacs Carnival</a> theme this month, building on
lively conversations about people's favourite packages on <a href="https://lobste.rs/s/sz3gab/what_are_your_favorite_emacs_packages">lobste.rs</a>,
<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1stw78y/what_are_your_favorite_emacs_packages/">Reddit</a>, and <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47875031">Hacker News</a>. Let's go beyond packages and talk workflows,
tips, practices, perspectives&hellip; whatever you'd recommend!
</p>

<p>
It was pretty nice having a wiki page that people could edit without
needing to wait for me, so if you write about this topic, feel free to
<a href="https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/CarnivalMay2026">edit the wiki page</a> and add your link. If you run into problems doing
that, please <a href="mailto:sacha@sachachua.com">e-mail me</a> and I can add the link for you.
</p>

<p>
People have already started sharing their recommendations:
</p>

<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://www.finaprosadigital.com/2026-05-02-may-emacs-carnival.html">May Emacs Carnival</a>, Carlos Pajuelo</li>
<li><a href="https://idlip.in/posts/may-i-recommend/">May I Recommend EWM</a>, Dilip</li>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/05/from-david-dimagid-what-we-talk-about-when-we-talk-about-recommending-emacs-packages/">What we talk about when we talk about recommending Emacs packages</a>, David Dimagid</li>
<li><a href="https://vannilla.org/write/1778277936/article.html">May I recommend… escaping the minibuffer</a>, Alessio Vanni</li>
<li><a href="https://giampaolo.guiducci.it/posts/2026-05-09-may-i-recommend-vibemacsing/">May I recommend&hellip; vibemacsing?</a>, by Giampaolo Guiducci</li>
<li><a href="https://mstempl.netlify.app/post/may-i-recommend/">May I recommend&hellip; to only add items to your init files you understand and document?</a>, by <a href="https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/MartinStemplinger">MartinStemplinger</a></li>
<li><a href="https://curtismchale.ca/2026/05/05/emacs-carnival-may-i-recommend">May I recommend&hellip; Stop messing around and get work done.</a>, by Curtis McHale</li>
<li><a href="https://www.acdw.net/carnival-emacs-2026-05/">May I recommend declaring bankruptcy from time to time</a>, by Case Duckworth</li>
<li><a href="https://www.matem.unam.mx/~omar/apropos-emacs.html#may-i-recommend-eww-for-emacs-innovative-ui">May I recommend eww for Emacs's innovative UI?</a>, by Omar Antolín Camarena</li>
<li><a href="https://www.chiply.dev/post-emacs-carnival-may">May I recommend&hellip; understanding Emacs's patterns</a>, by Charlie Holland</li>
<li><a href="https://meanwhiling.com/blog/2026-05-21-may-i-recommend-using-your-thumbs/">May I recommend using your thumbs</a> on Meanwhiling</li>
<li><a href="https://martinsos.com/posts/may-recommend-emacs-home-base/">May I recommend thinking of Emacs as your Fortress of Solitude</a>, by Martin Sosic</li>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/05/may-28-sacha-and-prot-talk-emacs-may-i-recommend/">Sacha and Prot Talk Emacs: May I Recommend&hellip;</a></li>
<li><a href="https://blog.southfox.me/2026/05/may-i-recommend-treating-emacs-as-emacs/">May I recommend&hellip; Treating Emacs as Emacs</a>, by <a href="https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/SouthFox">SouthFox</a></li>
<li><a href="https://tusharhero.codeberg.page/may-i-recommend-these-lesser-known-org-modes.html">May I recommend: lesser known org-modes</a>, by tusharhero</li>
<li><a href="https://wenshan.home.blog/2026/05/31/emacs-carnival-may-i-recommend/">May I Recommend: org2blog, journaling &amp; reading hacks</a>, by Wenshan Ren</li>
<li><a href="https://commonplace.doubleloop.net/emacs-carnival-may-i-recommend">May I recommend&hellip; less stretching for your common commands</a>, by Neil M</li>
</ul>

<p>
(Still got ideas, just a bit late? Let me know and I can add it here as well as to Emacs News!)
</p>
<div><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/05/emacs-carnival-may-2026-may-i-recommend/index.org">View Org source for this post</a></div>
<p>You can <a href="mailto:sacha@sachachua.com?subject=Comment%20on%20https%3A%2F%2Fsachachua.com%2Fblog%2F2026%2F05%2Femacs-carnival-may-2026-may-i-recommend%2F&body=Name%20you%20want%20to%20be%20credited%20by%20(if%20any)%3A%20%0AMessage%3A%20%0ACan%20I%20share%20your%20comment%20so%20other%20people%20can%20learn%20from%20it%3F%20Yes%2FNo%0A">e-mail me at sacha@sachachua.com</a>.</p>]]></description>
		</item><item>
		<title>2026-06-01 Emacs news</title>
		<link>https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/2026-06-01-emacs-news/</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sacha Chua]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2026 13:56:44 GMT</pubDate>
    <category>emacs</category>
<category>emacs-news</category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/2026-06-01-emacs-news/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>
There were 17 posts in the in the May carnival topic "<a href="https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/CarnivalMay2026">May I recommend</a>", very cool! Looking for something to write about next? Check out the June theme <a href="https://rossabaker.com/blog/underappreciated-emacs-built-ins/">Underappreciated Emacs Built-ins</a> hosted by Ross A. Baker.
</p>

<ul class="org-ul">
<li>Help wanted:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://github.com/emacs-elfeed/elfeed/blob/main/NEWS.org#upcoming-400-development">elfeed getting ready for 4.0 release, bug reports welcome</a> (<a href="https://mastodon.world/@minad/116634996927379067">@minad@mastodon.world</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://codeberg.org/MonadicSheep/emacs/src/branch/cross-platform">Help wanted: testing canvas patch on Windows and Mac OS</a> (<a href="https://mathstodon.xyz/@divyaranjan/116669299330851751">@divyaranjan@mathstodon.xyz</a>)</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Upcoming events (<a href="https://emacslife.com/calendar/emacs-calendar.ics">iCal file</a>, <a href="https://emacslife.com/calendar/">Org</a>):
<ul class="org-ul">
<li>Emacs.si (in person): Emacs.si meetup #6 2026 (v #živo) <a href="https://dogodki.kompot.si/events/67d716c3-6c04-4530-9c1a-f67aa44d31bc">https://dogodki.kompot.si/events/67d716c3-6c04-4530-9c1a-f67aa44d31bc</a> Mon Jun 1 1900 CET</li>
<li>Emacs Paris: S: Emacs workshop in Paris (online) <a href="https://emacs-doctor.com/">https://emacs-doctor.com/</a> Thu Jun 4 0830 America/Vancouver - 1030 America/Chicago - 1130 America/Toronto - 1530 Etc/GMT - 1730 Europe/Berlin - 2100 Asia/Kolkata - 2330 Asia/Singapore</li>
<li>EmacsATX: Emacs Social <a href="https://www.meetup.com/emacsatx/events/314809959/">https://www.meetup.com/emacsatx/events/314809959/</a> Thu Jun 4 1600 America/Vancouver - 1800 America/Chicago - 1900 America/Toronto - 2300 Etc/GMT &ndash; Fri Jun 5 0100 Europe/Berlin - 0430 Asia/Kolkata - 0700 Asia/Singapore</li>
<li>M-x Research: TBA <a href="https://m-x-research.github.io/">https://m-x-research.github.io/</a> Fri Jun 5 0800 America/Vancouver - 1000 America/Chicago - 1100 America/Toronto - 1500 Etc/GMT - 1700 Europe/Berlin - 2030 Asia/Kolkata - 2300 Asia/Singapore</li>
<li>Emacs Berlin: In-Person-Only Emacs-Berlin Stammtisch <a href="https://emacs-berlin.org/">https://emacs-berlin.org/</a> Tue Jun 9 1900 Europe/Berlin</li>
<li>OrgMeetup (virtual) <a href="https://orgmode.org/worg/orgmeetup.html">https://orgmode.org/worg/orgmeetup.html</a> Wed Jun 10 0900 America/Vancouver - 1100 America/Chicago - 1200 America/Toronto - 1600 Etc/GMT - 1800 Europe/Berlin - 2130 Asia/Kolkata &ndash; Thu Jun 11 0000 Asia/Singapore</li>
<li>Atelier Emacs Montpellier (in person) <a href="https://lebib.org/date/atelier-emacs">https://lebib.org/date/atelier-emacs</a> Fri Jun 12 1800 Europe/Paris</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Emacs configuration:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://commonplace.doubleloop.net/emacs-carnival-may-i-recommend">May I recommend&hellip; less stretching for your common commands</a>, by Neil M</li>
<li><a href="http://yummymelon.com/devnull/anju-v150-update.html">Charles Choi: Anju v1.5.0 Update</a> - mouse context menus</li>
<li><a href="https://write.moxnet.eu/brainiac-v2-0-released">Kemal: Brainiac v2.0 released</a> (<a href="https://codeberg.org/kemal/brainiac/releases/tag/v2.0.1">Codeberg</a>, <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1trabor/brainiac_v20_released/">Reddit</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/hrs/dotfiles/blob/main/emacs/.config/emacs/configuration.org">dotfiles/emacs/.config/emacs/configuration.org at main · hrs/dotfiles · GitHub</a> (<a href="https://mastodon.social/@hafner/116672833318086035">@hafner</a>)</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Emacs Lisp:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://i.redd.it/eqww4hblfk4h1.png">Wanna give a shout-out to Exercism.org's Emacs Lisp track</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1ttcwe7/wanna_give_a_shoutout_to_exercismorgs_emacs_lisp/">Reddit</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbesjOkICsg">Xah Talk Show Ep787. emacs lisp. add width height to all thumbnails</a> (01:01:25)</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Appearance:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://github.com/abougouffa/emacs-vim-file-locals">vim-file-locals: A small package to support some of Vim's modelines in Emacs</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1ttahii/vimfilelocals_a_small_package_to_support_some_of/">Reddit</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/Senka07/turboc-emacs-theme">Senka07/turboc-emacs-theme · GitHub</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tpyxp4/i_created_an_emacs_theme_based_on_turbo_c_trying/">Reddit</a>)</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Navigation:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://tailswish.industries/objects/e99c9f61-db9b-425c-914a-63bf25877f85">Tip: bind scroll-up-line and scroll-down-line to shortcuts to make it easy to read when a cat is blocking part of the screen (@lightspill@tailswish.industries)</a></li>
</ul></li>
<li>Writing:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://ray-on-emacs.blogspot.com/2026/05/zap-to-char-m-z.html">Raymond Zeitler: zap-to-char M-z</a> (<a href="https://irreal.org/blog/?p=13838">Irreal</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://taonaw.com/2026/05/31/installing-harper-on-kubuntu-the.html">TAONAW - Emacs and Org Mode: Installing Harper on Kubuntu: The Right Way. Maybe.</a> - grammar check</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Denote:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://taonaw.com/2026/05/26/using-denote-for-email-a.html">Using Denote for Email: A manual workflow | The Art Of Not Asking Why</a> (<a href="https://fosstodon.org/@jtr/116641175609413241">@jtr@fosstodon.org</a>)</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Org Mode:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaHyR8sAn90">I Replaced Obsidian with Doom Emacs &amp; Org Mode</a> (14:37, <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tswduc/first_time_emacs_coming_from_neovim_and_im/">Reddit</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://whhone.com/posts/refining-org-mode-deadlines/">Refining Org-mode Deadlines - Wai Hon's Blog</a> (<a href="https://mastodon.social/@whhone/116635595042154725">@whhone</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tt7awc/speeding_up_orgagenda_by_keeping_orgagendafiles/">Speeding up org-agenda by keeping org-agenda-files to a minimum</a></li>
<li><a href="https://tusharhero.codeberg.page/may-i-recommend-these-lesser-known-org-modes.html">tusharhero: May I recommend: lesser known org-modes</a>: org-num-mode, org-toggle-pretty-entities (<a href="https://mathstodon.xyz/@tusharhero/116668082218869772">@tusharhero@mathstodon.xyz</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://wenshan.home.blog/2026/05/31/emacs-carnival-may-i-recommend/">May I Recommend: org2blog, journaling &amp; reading hacks</a>, by Wenshan Ren</li>
<li>Import, export, and integration:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://github.com/novoid/Memacs">Memacs: added module for getting PodcastAddict episods into Org Mode</a> (<a href="https://graz.social/@publicvoit/116636436372373569">@publicvoit@graz.social</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://codeberg.org/tnalpgge/ox-wikidot">tnalpgge/ox-wikidot: org-mode exporter for Wikidot markup - Codeberg.org</a> (<a href="https://bsd.network/@nasunasu/116639205205943402">@nasunasu@bsd.network</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://taonaw.com/2026/05/25/journelly-and-osm-for-emacs.html">TAONAW - Emacs and Org Mode: Journelly and OSM for Emacs are good together</a> - OpenStreetMap locations</li>
<li><a href="https://list.orgmode.org/87ecitjbjp.fsf@Host-002.lan/T/#u">Notes from #29 bbb:OrgMeetup on Wed, March 11, 19:00 UTC+3</a> (<a href="https://fosstodon.org/@yantar92/116663682793035364">@yantar92@fosstodon.org</a>)</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Org development: <a href="https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git/commit/etc/ORG-NEWS?id=22a724bb41fd24eed50fbf95b54a38a6e4572a14">etc/ORG-NEWS: Announce about internal changes in org-colview</a></li>
</ul></li>
<li>Coding:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://sfba.social/@kickingvegas/116643819531994106">Tip about using show-paren-context-when-offscreen (@kickingvegas@sfba.social)</a></li>
<li><a href="https://buzz.cicadas.surf/@shoshin/116641447472476509">Tip about using magit-git-show-refs (@shoshin@buzz.cicadas.surf)</a></li>
<li><a href="https://emacs.dyerdwelling.family/emacs/20260528103245-emacs&#45;&#45;stashing-a-single-file-and-why-i-was-too-quick-to-blame-vc-mode/">James Dyer: Stashing a Single File, and Why I Was Too Quick to Blame vc-mode!</a></li>
<li><a href="https://kowelenz.social/objects/dd93848d-ba14-45d2-92f1-89106cfb206f">Tip about using phpantom_lsp to improve performance of php-mode - @django@kowelenz.social</a></li>
</ul></li>
<li>Mail, news, and chat:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://coyotetracks.org/blog/best-worst-email/">The Best Worst Email Client</a> (<a href="https://irreal.org/blog/?p=13834">Irreal</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://thecloudlet.github.io/technical/til/mu4e-gmail-macos/">TIL: Reading Gmail in Emacs with mu4e on macOS | The Cloudlet</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tqv985/mu4e_gmail_on_macos_without_oauth2_app_password/">Reddit</a>, <a href="https://irreal.org/blog/?p=13842">Irreal</a>)</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Fun:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://github.com/oantolin/lugagge">oantolin/luggage: A Largely Undesired Gadget: a Generative Art Gallery for Emacs · GitHub</a> (<a href="https://mathstodon.xyz/@oantolin/116666554114870746">@oantolin@mathstodon.xyz</a>)</li>
<li><a href="http://en.andros.dev/blog/d8b3a759/playing-chess-online-with-emacs/">Andros Fenollosa: Playing chess online with Emacs</a>
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://andros.dev/blog/002f1b83/jugando-al-ajedrez-en-red-con-emacs/">Jugando al ajedrez en red con Emacs | Andros Fenollosa</a></li>
</ul></li>
</ul></li>
<li>AI:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tovj9y/whats_the_least_painful_emacs_ai_coding_agent/">What’s the least painful Emacs + AI coding agent setup right now?</a></li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/seanvert/cherry-prompt">Built a lightweight, zero-dependency interactive file aggregator (with token estimates) to gather LLM context</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tos31v/built_a_lightweight_zerodependency_interactive/">Reddit</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/ahyatt/llm-buddy">Turning agents on their head: LLM help for human authorship</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tnhul1/turning_agents_on_their_head_llm_help_for_human/">Reddit</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.chiply.dev/post-emacs-space-tree">Announcing space-tree: Workspace Management Trees in Emacs</a> (<a href="https://github.com/chiply/space-tree">Github</a>, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENdca9uBtoQ">YouTube</a> 27:56, <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tp35hs/announcing_spacetree_workspace_management_trees/">Reddit</a>, <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48296372">HN</a>)</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Community:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://blog.southfox.me/2026/05/may-i-recommend-treating-emacs-as-emacs/">May I recommend&hellip; Treating Emacs as Emacs — 狐狸反走矣</a> (<a href="https://foxsay.southfox.me/@SouthFox/116665355522011429">@SouthFox@foxsay.southfox.me</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/05/may-28-sacha-and-prot-talk-emacs-may-i-recommend/">Sacha Chua: Yay Emacs 32: Sacha and Prot Talk Emacs: May I recommend&hellip;</a> (<a href="https://protesilaos.com/codelog/2026-05-27-emacs-live-sacha-chua-may-i-recommend/">Prot</a>, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl-ifABU45A">YouTube</a> 01:01:41)</li>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/05/may-29-emacs-chat-with-omar-antolin-camarena/">Emacs Chat 24: Omar Antolin Camarena</a> (<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7-dJb2GTN4">YouTube</a> 01:08:11)
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/05/karthik-s-notes-on-emacs-chat-24-omar-antolin-camarena/">Sacha Chua: Karthik's notes on Emacs Chat 24: Omar Antolin Camarena</a></li>
</ul></li>
<li><a href="https://fediverse.tv/c/emacs_with_dr_howell/videos">Emacs with Dr. Howell - FediverseTV</a> (<a href="https://fediscience.org/@jameshowell/116664141819486533">@jameshowell@fediscience.org</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqSzXM9R8W4">From GNU Emacs to code gouv fr</a> (38:59) - Bastien Guerry</li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1nu0il5KgU">Shibuya.lisp lispmeetup #118  2026-05-28</a> (01:42:20)</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Other:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li>Carnival for June: <a href="https://rossabaker.com/blog/underappreciated-emacs-built-ins/">Ross A. Baker: Underappreciated Emacs built-ins</a> (<a href="https://social.rossabaker.com/@ross/116672580144160342">@ross@rossabaker.com</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/abougouffa/real-backup">real-backup-mode: a package to backup files at each save point, never lose your changes again</a> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1trbjnp/realbackupmode_a_package_to_backup_files_at_each/">Reddit</a>, <a href="https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/BackupEachSave">EmacsWiki</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://mbork.pl/2026-05-25_Ignoring_pdfs_when_auto-reverting_files">Marcin Borkowski: Ignoring pdfs when auto-reverting files</a> (<a href="https://irreal.org/blog/?p=13840">Irreal</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://ray-on-emacs.blogspot.com/2026/05/emacs-view-commands.html">Raymond Zeitler: Emacs view- Commands</a></li>
<li><a href="https://pulusound.fi/blog/emacs-bra-size-calculator">Emacs bra size calculator - pulusound</a> (<a href="https://anticapitalist.party/@ahihi/116648421712726884">@ahihi@anticapitalist.party</a>, <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48330390">HN</a>, <a href="https://lobste.rs/s/yszuka/emacs_bra_size_calculator">lobste.rs</a>, <a href="https://programming.dev/post/51246395?scrollToComments=true">programming.dev</a>)</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Emacs development:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li>emacs-devel: <a href="https://yhetil.org/emacs-devel/865x4631fw.fsf@gnu.org/">Where to find out what happens when a menu is created or handled</a></li>
<li><a href="https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/etc/NEWS?id=64f4ce7b2d9d8bf8c291b8b6993f9b4ced51814c">Allow optionally disabling the use of TABs for TTY cursor movement</a></li>
<li><a href="https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/etc/NEWS?id=833553dd9aec0072961a7f1a7797f9481855a07f">dbus-call-method-asynchronously supports also an ERROR-HANDLER</a></li>
</ul></li>
<li>New packages:
<ul class="org-ul">
<li><a target="_blank" href="https://melpa.org/#/elot">elot</a>: Emacs Literate Ontology Tool (ELOT) (MELPA)</li>
<li><a target="_blank" href="https://melpa.org/#/f90-ts-mode">f90-ts-mode</a>: Tree-sitter based Fortran 90 mode (MELPA)</li>
<li><a target="_blank" href="https://melpa.org/#/lsp-ltex-plus">lsp-ltex-plus</a>: Grammar and spell checking for LaTeX, Markdown, Org and more (MELPA)</li>
<li><a target="_blank" href="https://melpa.org/#/mac-ime">mac-ime</a>: Seamless macOS IME integration without any IME patches (MELPA)</li>
<li><a target="_blank" href="https://melpa.org/#/ox-zola">ox-zola</a>: Org export to Zola static site generator (MELPA)</li>
<li><a target="_blank" href="https://melpa.org/#/phony">phony</a>: Speech bindings for Elisp (MELPA)</li>
<li><a target="_blank" href="https://melpa.org/#/sysml-mode">sysml-mode</a>: Major mode for SysML v2 (Systems Modeling Language) (MELPA)</li>
</ul></li>
</ul>

<p>
Links from <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs">reddit.com/r/emacs</a>, <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/orgmode">r/orgmode</a>, <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/spacemacs">r/spacemacs</a>, <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/emacs">Mastodon #emacs</a>, <a href="https://bsky.app/hashtag/emacs">Bluesky #emacs</a>, <a href="https://hn.algolia.com/?query=emacs&amp;sort=byDate&amp;prefix&amp;page=0&amp;dateRange=all&amp;type=story">Hacker News</a>, <a href="https://lobste.rs/search?q=emacs&amp;what=stories&amp;order=newest">lobste.rs</a>, <a href="https://programming.dev/c/emacs?dataType=Post&amp;page=1&amp;sort=New">programming.dev</a>, <a href="https://lemmy.world/c/emacs">lemmy.world</a>, <a href="https://lemmy.ml/c/emacs?dataType=Post&amp;page=1&amp;sort=New">lemmy.ml</a>, <a href="https://planet.emacslife.com">planet.emacslife.com</a>, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4th0AZixyREOtvxDpdxC9oMuX7Ar7Sdt">YouTube</a>, <a href="http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/log/etc/NEWS">the Emacs NEWS file</a>, <a href="https://emacslife.com/calendar/">Emacs Calendar</a>, and <a href="https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2026-06">emacs-devel</a>. Thanks to Andrés Ramírez for emacs-devel links. Do you have an Emacs-related link or announcement? Please e-mail me at <a href="mailto:sacha@sachachua.com">sacha@sachachua.com</a>. Thank you!</p>
<div><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/06/2026-06-01-emacs-news/index.org">View Org source for this post</a></div>
<p>You can <a href="mailto:sacha@sachachua.com?subject=Comment%20on%20https%3A%2F%2Fsachachua.com%2Fblog%2F2026%2F06%2F2026-06-01-emacs-news%2F&body=Name%20you%20want%20to%20be%20credited%20by%20(if%20any)%3A%20%0AMessage%3A%20%0ACan%20I%20share%20your%20comment%20so%20other%20people%20can%20learn%20from%20it%3F%20Yes%2FNo%0A">e-mail me at sacha@sachachua.com</a>.</p>]]></description>
		</item><item>
		<title>La semaine du 18 au 24 mai</title>
		<link>https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/05/la-semaine-du-18-au-24-mai/</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sacha Chua]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2026 23:47:34 GMT</pubDate>
    <category>french</category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/05/la-semaine-du-18-au-24-mai/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<div id="outline-container-org8d2b9fc" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="org8d2b9fc"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#org8d2b9fc">lundi 18</a></h3>
<div class="outline-text-3" id="text-org8d2b9fc">
<p>
Je me suis réveillée très tôt pour interroger ma sœur qui est très malade d'un cancer. Nous voulons enregistrer des vidéos pour ses jeunes filles et son mari. Sa fille aînée a commencé à l'interviewer, mais bien sûr, il y a des sujets dont elles ne peuvent peut-être pas parler pour le moment. Je l'ai appelée sur Facebook Messenger et j'ai utilisé OBS pour enregistrer l'appel. J'ai un flux de travail pour corriger et formater la transcription, et je suis ravie de l'utiliser pour ma famille.
</p>

<p>
Il faisait très chaud. C'était notre première vague de chaleur intense cette année. J'ai emmené ma fille au parc Amos Waites pour jouer à la pataugeoire là-bas. Elle a vraiment aimé la robe-maillot que nous avons cousue. Elle adorait tourner dans le siège pivotant que notre parc à proximité n'a pas. Elle a tellement joué qu'elle s'est endormie sur le chemin du retour.
</p>

<p>
Après le dîner, ma fille et moi sommes allées à un autre parc pour regarder des feux d'artifice pour la fête de la Reine. Il y avait beaucoup de gens, donc je pense que c'était un rassemblement habituel pour les jours de fête où les feux d'artifice sont autorisés.
</p>

<p>
J'ai terminé la révision de la transcription de ma conversation avec Prot et Philip. Je pense que l'audio de Philip est parfois trop faible, mais je ne suis pas sûre de pouvoir normaliser juste ces segments. Si j'ai une conversation avec un autre locuteur, je peux enregistrer les flux audio séparément, mais dans une conversation entre trois locuteurs (Prot, Philip et moi), je ne peux pas complètement les séparer. En plus, je pense que je ne peux pas remplacer juste l'audio d'une vidéo en diffusion sur YouTube. Peut-être que je peux mettre en ligne une nouvelle vidéo et changer l'ancienne vidéo en une vidéo non répertoriée.
</p>

<p>
À l'heure du coucher, ma fille et moi avons parlé de la neurodivergence, des mathématiques, et des facteurs humains comme les limitations de la boucle auditive comparée à la visualisation. J'adore lui parler de son cerveau.
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="outline-container-org68f546e" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="org68f546e"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#org68f546e">mardi 19</a></h3>
<div class="outline-text-3" id="text-org68f546e">
<p>
J'ai essayé de virer de l'argent aux Philippines via Wise. C'était réussi.
</p>

<p>
Je me suis entraînée aux virelangues. Oups, j'ai oublié de confirmer l'audio sur OBS, donc je ne peux pas l'analyser.
</p>

<p>
J'ai réécrit deux transcriptions pour les entretiens de ma sœur.
</p>

<p>
J'ai emmené ma fille au parc pour jouer avec ses amies. J'ai oublié les glaces à l'eau, donc je suis revenue à la maison pour les retrouver.
</p>

<p>
Nous avons pratiqué les permutations et la division posée.
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="outline-container-org6ae1bf4" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="org6ae1bf4"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#org6ae1bf4">mercredi 20</a></h3>
<div class="outline-text-3" id="text-org6ae1bf4">
<p>
J'ai réécrit encore des transcriptions pour les entretiens de mes nièces avec ma sœur. J'ai configuré un serveur dans notre réseau pour les héberger avec l'authentification basique.
</p>

<p>
L'école avait un remplaçant aujourd'hui. Il a accidentellement éjecté tous les élèves de la salle de réunion virtuelle et tous ont dû attendre que l'enseignant corrige les permissions.
</p>

<p>
J'ai ajouté un gousset aux shorts de bain de ma fille.
</p>

<p>
J'ai emmené ma fille et son amie au parc pour jouer. Elles se sont amusées à me donner des décharges avec l'électricité statique. Après que les autres amies de ma fille sont arrivées, ma fille semblait un peu surstimulée. Elle est partie seule et elle était grincheuse pour le reste de la journée, pauvre chérie.
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="outline-container-org590f3c9" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="org590f3c9"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#org590f3c9">jeudi 21</a></h3>
<div class="outline-text-3" id="text-org590f3c9">
<p>
J'ai discuté d'Emacs avec Raymond Zeitler sur une diffusion en direct. C'était la première fois que je lui parlais en vidéo même si nous correspondons depuis 18 ans via les commentaires sur mon blog.
</p>

<p>
Le dentiste a fait deux plombages. Il a proposé un plan de traitement, mais c'est cher, donc je veux bien y réfléchir avant de procéder. Je pense que je veux gagner en confiance avec ce dentiste d'abord. On dirait que la restauration précoce est mieux que d'attendre pour les dents cariées selon les recherches, donc c'est bon, mais on dirait aussi que d'autres dentistes recommandent d'autres niveaux de traitement. J'aime les précautions COVID que ce dentiste prend. Il y a d'autres dentistes (un peu loin) qui prennent aussi ce niveau de précautions, mais ils disent probablement la même recommandation (c'est la même recherche), donc je ne cherche pas particulièrement d'autre conseil. Je ne veux pas passer pour une vache à lait, tu sais?
</p>
</div>
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<h3 id="orgdcaf3cc"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#orgdcaf3cc">vendredi 22</a></h3>
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Je me suis réveillée tôt pour une conversation sur la communauté Emacs et l'IA avec Matei Candea, un anthropologue. Il pense à faire une étude ethnographique, et je pense que c'est potentiellement intéressant.
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<p>
J'ai terminé la transcription de ma conversation avec Raymond Zeitler sur Emacs. J'ai remarqué que j'utilisais le mauvais horodatage pour publier les chapitres à partir de la transcription, donc j'ai corrigé l'erreur.
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<p>
Ma fille n'a pas voulu participer à l'école parce qu'il y a eu un remplaçant, donc elle a fait une pause.
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<p>
J'étais fatiguée, donc j'ai fait une sieste.
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<p>
J'ai emmené ma fille au cours de rattrapage de gymnastique. Elle a pris plaisir à apprendre la gymnastique aérienne. Après le cours, ma fille a voulu aller au parc asperge (St. James Park) parce qu'il y a un grand toboggan. Elle s'est entraînée à descendre le toboggan à de nombreuses reprises. Après avoir fait ça, nous avons acheté du sushi. Elle a essayé la tempura de crevettes et elle l'a aimée.
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<h3 id="orgf83d11a"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#orgf83d11a">samedi 23</a></h3>
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<p>
Il a beaucoup plu et c'était très venteux, donc nous sommes restées à la maison au lieu d'aller à la célébration de printemps à la ferme Riverdale.
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<p>
Ma fille et moi avons joué à Stardew Valley avec le mod <a href="https://www.nexusmods.com/stardewvalley/mods/41830">Tileman Reworked</a>, qui me demande d'acheter les tuiles auxquelles je veux accéder. J'aime parfois jouer à des jeux avec des limites comme <a href="https://skyblock.net/">Minecraft Skyblock</a> parce que les limites focalisent l'attention et la progression est très différente. Ma fille préfère notre jeu précédent avec le mod <a href="https://www.nexusmods.com/stardewvalley/mods/3753">Stardew Valley Expanded</a>.
</p>

<p>
Pour le dîner, nous avons mangé du sotanghon, qui est une soupe aux nouilles et au poulet. Nous avons aussi essayé le taiyaki congelé. C'était pratique et acceptable, mais bien sûr le taiyaki chez Pat Mart est meilleur.
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<p>
À l'heure du coucher, ma fille et moi avons discuté de la neurodivergence, de la double exceptionnalité, de l'apprentissage des élèves doués, de la différence entre la récupération d'information et de la synthèse. Nous avons aussi discuté de la faune, des maladies, des vaccins, et d'autres sujets.
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<h3 id="entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-18-au-24-mai-dimanche-24"><a href="https://sachachua.com/blog/feed/index.xml#entr-es-de-journal-la-semaine-du-18-au-24-mai-dimanche-24">dimanche 24</a></h3>
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<p>
J'ai parlé avec mon mari du TDAH. Il pense que je suis juste préoccupée, et ce n'est pas grave. C'est bon. Je ne veux pas laisser ma vie être perturbée au point d'avoir des problèmes dans deux zones ou plus dans ma vie pour obtenir possiblement un diagnostic, ce qui ne m'aiderait probablement pas beaucoup plus. Quand même, je peux continuer d'explorer comment je peux m'adapter à mon cerveau et ma situation.
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<p>
Ma fille et moi avons préparé du lait au sucre brun et aux perles boba faites à la main.
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<p>
Mon mari, ma fille et moi sommes allés aux Stockyards pour faire des courses. Nous avons acheté une boîte de mangues, des perles boba, des haricots azuki, et d'autres aliments. Nous avons préparé une fournée de mochis aux haricots azuki.
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<p>
J'ai recherché quelques dessins pour les transcriptions. Je pense que je veux inclure les noms des interlocuteurs dans la marge gauche et les horodatages dans la marge droite. Je veux aussi réécrire la transcription pour supprimer les mots de remplissage.
</p>

<p>
Pour le dîner, nous avons mangé du curry japonais.
</p>

<p>
Je me suis couchée tard parce que sur Stardew, j'ai finalement accédé à la caisse chez Pierre pour acheter des graines dans la troisième année. La progression est très lente. Heureusement, le mod <a href="https://www.nexusmods.com/stardewvalley/mods/32354">HibernationRedux</a> me permet de sauter le temps pendant que j'attendais la croissance des arbres.
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